I don't actually know what I'm doing....

[AllieBdot]

Hi! So I have a new tank- about four weeks old now. I'll be the first to admit that I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing and we may have jumped the gun in several ways including not researching properly and introducing fish too soon. About a week ago we lost a domino damsel. Then a couple days later we lost a striped damsel. They both retreated into the rocks and hid for a few days prior to passing. Then we noticed a white spot on our butterfly fish. I did extensive internet research and drew the conclusion that it's probably ich and I should try to boost his little immune system before it gets serious (garlic extreme, Vita chem and selcon). It hasn't spread and seems to me improving. We introduced several snails and crabs 4 days ago as well, and did a 20 percent water change yesterday. Today we have a yellow tail damsel hiding- haven't seen since prior to water change. A blue green chromis hiding- hes in a big spot so we can still see him. Our butterfly was acting very strange this morning seemingly having buoyancy issues but is now acting more like himself. I tested water this morning with an API kit. pH was 8.2 but ammonia was about a 1.0 and nitrite was between 1.0 and 2.0 which I realise is high but Nitrate is 10-20. Any troubleshooting advice is appreciated. I don't want to lose anymore little fish if there is an easy fix.

 

[Webslinger]

slow and steady. there shouldn't be that many fish in your tank. See if the lfs will hold your fish, especially the copperband. Has your tank finished it's cycle?

 

[mrlavalamp]

ammonia at 1.0 ppm is a big problem.

I was always told anything over .5ppm ammonia is basically poisoning the fish to death slowly. I am no expert in the field, just regurgitation what I recall reading.

I would be getting ready for a big water change to drop that ammonia right away. Prime or another detoxifier might be a good stop gap until then.

your nitrite isnt that bad, neither is nitrate (they are a little high, but they are also not nearly as toxic as ammonia).

I am thinking that the passing fish have polluted your water with ammonia and your tank is new enough that the bio-filter isn't established well enough to handle these major nutrient additions.

 

[mrlavalamp]

responded in your other version of this thread.

Get the ammonia down, or get the fish out.

 

[Ultra Aquatics]

Ammonia at 1.0 is a big problem, I would get some bottled bacteria like Dr. Tim’s one and only or Fritz turbo start.

 

[Chrisfish]

Welcome to R2R, nice looking tank. Can you tell us how long you cycled the tank before you added fish? What did you cycle the tank with? There should be no ammonia in your tank, it’s really bad for the fish.

 

[Shirak]

eeeek ammonia and nitrite showing then the tank not totally cycled. I would do some more water changes to bring particularly ammonia down which is not good for any of the critters and fish. You could also get some Prime which will make it less toxic until you can do the water changes and let the cycle get fully ramped up.

 

[Johniejumbo]

Really isn’t an easy fix. You can detoxify the ammonia with water conditioners like Prime or Amquel. I like Prime. But that will only go so far. The tank hasn’t had time to cycle fully. The above advice to have a lfs hold the fish is good if you can find one that will do so. It’s a tough situation. If I were in your shoes I would use the water conditioners to detoxify (read and follow the directions) and do frequent water changes to help decrease the ammonia levels. Be sure you read up on water changes. The temp and salinity need to be very close to avoid adding stress on the tanks inhabitants.
also. Adding an air stone may help by ensuring enough oxygen for the biological processes.

 

[Johniejumbo]

Bottle bacteria could help too.

 

[muzikalmatt]

As others have mentioned, the best thing to do would be to get the fish to a temporary home if at all possible until the tank finishes cycling. Having any detectable ammonia or nitrite is a no-no when having fish in the tank. Adding a potential ich infestation to the mix is a recipe for disaster as the fish are likely already stressed from the ammonia levels.

However, I realize catching and removing the fish can be difficult and stressful on them, so the next best thing is using both water conditioners and bacteria in a bottle as others have mentioned. This should hopefully keep the ammonia levels below toxic levels until your beneficial bacteria can catch up to the bioload. It's probably worth getting a Seachem ammonia badge too so you can easily keep an eye on the levels to know if you need to do a water change or something more drastic.

Best of luck to you! I hope your fish pull through and live long happy lives!

 

[Alanna102499]

Check out all the videos on #AskBRSTV

 

[AllieBdot]

I am embarrassed to say that I took bad advice from someone who told me they were experienced. Said I only need live rock/sand and a protein skimmer. Live rock/sand for good bacteria and protein skimmer to get rid of bad. I gave the rock a few days and started adding fish a few at a time ( per advice from the same guy). It wasn't until the first damsel died that I started to actually deep dive into the proper art and science that goes into this and since my little ecosystem was otherwise thriving I thought I was past the cycle so I do not even know where I might be at in the cycle now. All that being said... I am not one to sit by and allow animals to suffer so I'm trying my best to remedy my mistake.

 

[Alanna102499]

Check out the videos on Bulkreefsupply.com
Great stuff can walk through some of the basic basics! That’s what I did! Good luck!

 

[MattR]

Be careful with the snails and crabs as they can be extremely sensitive to ammonia and if they die and go unnoticed, they will release more unwanted nutrients into your tank causing more problems. If the snails or crabs die (along with any dead livestock) remove it immediately. Good luck, it will be ok, everyone starts somewhere, I totally ruined my first saltwater tank about a year ago and like to say I have made a great improvement. Research, asking knowledgeable people, and PATIENCE!

 

[mrlavalamp]

cycle usually takes a couple weeks minimum start to finish if you are setting up fresh tank unless you take drastic and intentional steps to shorten/skip the cycle process (like they do at shows).

Mine took nearly a month (dry rock dry sand, bottle bacterias only).

Check out the videos on Bulkreefsupply.com
Great stuff can walk through some of the basic basics! That’s what I did! Good luck!

definitely do this. The 52 week series they did where they setup a tank start to finish is EXCELLENT!

 

[Hugh Mann]

I don't have anything to add in regards to the water conditions, however I will say if you have a QT setup, I would recommend if possible, QTing your inverts as well as fish. They can carry parasites on their shells and introduce them to your tank. That's how I ended up with Velvet in my tank, wiping out half my fish. Don't need any medication, just let them sit in a tank away from fish.

Best of luck.

 

[Malifry97]

@brandon429
Your tank has visual signs of being cycled you used real live rock, I’d just use prime for a day or two, and youll be good to go. If you really need peace of mind Id use some biospira. What test kit?

edit: just saw API kit. Pretty sure they are false positives and something else is wrong. The hiding makes me think the copperband is bullying or one of the other damsels is. What order was the copperband added? Like first, last, what?

 

[brandon429]

very simple situation here, thats fish disease from lack of quarantine. read on fallow, quarantine in this forum, that w handle the fish disease and immunity portion, and there's really no other way that works per statistics in 2020, though a few other ways are claimed to let you skip fallow and qurantine preps for your fish.

regarding the cycle and the test kits your cycle is not in question, just because those kits read something doesnt mean anything is occurring involving lack of bacteria. if you had a seneye test saying ammonia had risen, Id be concerned. and I would note that down as the first instance in the history of reefing that a living tank couldnt process ammonia after completing a cycle.

nitrate is for algae tuning it has no bearing in cycle assessment

nitrite is now rendered neutral in reef cycling in 2020, we dont factor it. I wouldnt care if the vial was purple; not factored. chemical interactions searchable online show why nitrite is neutral.


that leaves us with ammonia.
You've had rocks ready and fish alive weeks, cycles can't retrograde, undo or be partial.

they're either done, or cannot carry fish load, and it all dies overnite. no midground, there's no such thing as partially cycled, only API says that, seneye never will.

Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis

A forum for discussing treatment and diagnosing saltwater reef fish.

www.reef2reef.com

learning correct fallow, transfer, and isolation technique is like learning to be an LVN all in one pass. its clinical, repetitive, and if you mess up the whole work of three years can be undone in an instant. clinical pathogen control is the only way to stop fish loss in today's reefing, when more than one sample is considered.

skip the cycle concerns its fish disease related.

 

[brandon429]

troubleshooting this reef comes largely from the notion that at no time in reefing can a cycle undo, or retrograde, or get weaker.

if you add fish before a cycle is complete, they're dead in two days.


They cannot live a month, then be killed by lack of bac in a massive system of rock and sand activated surface area.

ONLY api and red sea and nyos and all the titration kits constitute stuck cycle threads, zero are seneye or mindstream readings. any statistician would never accept data that skewed as a model of what bacteria do.

seneye ammonia has done more to revolutionize aquarium microbiology than any gear Ive ever seen. Im aware aquabiomics can measure families and clades and group them; this seneye changed the way we see cycle for all reefs, since reefing began.


we've been wrong on how cycles work, until now.

it is either a total lie, or the most powerful cycling statistics to claim this:

at no time does any reef aquarium running seneye show ammonia out of control from normal drift conversion levels when in the presence of rocks and sand.


*google this*
"reef aquarium stuck cycle"


they're all not stuck. They are all precisely a million pages of api readings. ten thousand are salifert saying free ammonia

its still wrong, there is no free ammonia in any of them. that's how big of a deal seneye is, it can right what google has helped wrong by linking us all together to trade wrong cycling info.

 

[brandon429]

for kicks, I told a gentleman in the new tank forum that Im so sure his six day fritz cycle with high nitrite is fish ready, that I'd be willing to insure any reasonable fish purchase to start as proof of cycle ready. ill paypal him in front of everyone if his starting bioload dies. within two days ~

so, he went out and bought a 70$ special breed clown ~~~~~


next time/clears terms better.

next level is offering to pay for a miscall.

or a fail to acclimate lol, not many more of these offers are going out but its fun to generally be certain in a world of uncertainty. Ive seen seneye data online, owning one isn't required to make use of the data.

Cycling new tank - could use a little input

When you first add the fish, we feed them lightly so that none falls down and so they stay engaged and hungry for next day, not really a full feed on day one it’s a slow protein introduction ramp up. When they set up skip cycle tanks at reef conventions, feeding sometimes waits till next day...

www.reef2reef.com