I don't actually know what I'm doing....

[Perthegallon]

Hi! So I have a new tank- about four weeks old now. I'll be the first to admit that I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing and we may have jumped the gun in several ways including not researching properly and introducing fish too soon. About a week ago we lost a domino damsel. Then a couple days later we lost a striped damsel. They both retreated into the rocks and hid for a few days prior to passing. Then we noticed a white spot on our butterfly fish. I did extensive internet research and drew the conclusion that it's probably ich and I should try to boost his little immune system before it gets serious (garlic extreme, Vita chem and selcon). It hasn't spread and seems to me improving. We introduced several snails and crabs 4 days ago as well, and did a 20 percent water change yesterday. Today we have a yellow tail damsel hiding- haven't seen since prior to water change. A blue green chromis hiding- hes in a big spot so we can still see him. Our butterfly was acting very strange this morning seemingly having buoyancy issues but is now acting more like himself. I tested water this morning with an API kit. pH was 8.2 but ammonia was about a 1.0 and nitrite was between 1.0 and 2.0 which I realise is high but Nitrate is 10-20. Any troubleshooting advice is appreciated. I don't want to lose anymore little fish if there is an easy fix.
Give the fish back to the fish store you need to learn more about this hobby before starting ive done over a year of research and still have barely no clue what I’m doing. This hobby will cost you a lot of money if you know what your doing and will cost you a lot more if you don’t

 

[brandon429]

@Malifry97 I took this one as far as it could be taken friend. we're not evaluating the day after setup; its weeks with fish in place. If the majority feels this was a free ammonia tank, then follow their fix method for sure which is based around needing more bacteria. it will either stop fish loss or it wont.

 

[Perthegallon]

Hi! So I have a new tank- about four weeks old now. I'll be the first to admit that I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing and we may have jumped the gun in several ways including not researching properly and introducing fish too soon. About a week ago we lost a domino damsel. Then a couple days later we lost a striped damsel. They both retreated into the rocks and hid for a few days prior to passing. Then we noticed a white spot on our butterfly fish. I did extensive internet research and drew the conclusion that it's probably ich and I should try to boost his little immune system before it gets serious (garlic extreme, Vita chem and selcon). It hasn't spread and seems to me improving. We introduced several snails and crabs 4 days ago as well, and did a 20 percent water change yesterday. Today we have a yellow tail damsel hiding- haven't seen since prior to water change. A blue green chromis hiding- hes in a big spot so we can still see him. Our butterfly was acting very strange this morning seemingly having buoyancy issues but is now acting more like himself. I tested water this morning with an API kit. pH was 8.2 but ammonia was about a 1.0 and nitrite was between 1.0 and 2.0 which I realise is high but Nitrate is 10-20. Any troubleshooting advice is appreciated. I don't want to lose anymore little fish if there is an easy fix.
You need to prime the water to make it safe though and water changes daily

 

[Cell]

While the number of fish may seem like a lot, if you look at the pic, the actual size of the fish in comparison to the tank is pretty small. I'd caution blaming the issues on the bio load of this 4 week old tank as a result.

 

[Malifry97]

Brandon's methods may not be conventional, but that is the point, just because this is how it's always been done does not mean it's the correct or optimal or only way. If you think he is making these statements without information, you are mistaken. He has proven a lot of his theories in the real world, tank by tank, with users across multiple reefing forums and is clearly willing to put his money where his mouth is.

This^^

 

[Malifry97]

Yes. I'd add that it also depends on water volume of the tank whether you'd notice any negative effects or not. Adding 4 more fish to a 'cycled' that's 100G vs 10G would, in my mind, have different results.

I may of missed it but he didn't cover transit time, etc of moving the rock either. Would you agree depending how life rock is shipped/moved between tanks can also affect the biological filter?

I do think when it comes to reef conventions setting up tanks in days is a very different skillset/experience involved than a new reefer adding fish in a matter of days. One is more likely to have issues.


Will also answer the other person


I know. I find his post interesting as well. I reacted to these statements:
"very simple situation here, thats fish disease from lack of quarantine"
and
"regarding the cycle and the test kits your cycle is not in question,"


This is an emergency thread. The person is an admittedly new reef. Brandon has various badges beside his name. I felt it was a bit much to make declarative statements with such little information in the thread. There had only been a photo, test results indicating ammonia and nitrite and report of a single fish with a single spot which was still alive. Just felt a bit too declarative, regardless of a person's knowledge in the hobby.

I didn't mean it as a personal attack to Brandon or his efforts in the hobby, apologizes if it came across that way.

In this case, you really only need a photo to determine the tank is cycled.

 

[Malifry97]

@Malifry97 I took this one as far as it could be taken friend. we're not evaluating the day after setup; its weeks with fish in place. If the majority feels this was a free ammonia tank, then follow their fix method for sure which is based around needing more bacteria. it will either stop fish loss or it wont.

It is most certainly not a free ammonia issue, I only said about bottled bac because OP seemed VERY worried and it may help ease his nerves so he could think rationally and not rush a solution. Sometimes, being panicky can hurt your tank more than the actual issue at hand.

Sometimes we can speak until were blue in the face but it doesnt convince anyone. At least we were able to get our ideas out there in this thread

 

[AllieBdot]

Did the copperband die yet?

Everybody is alive except a

I'm sorry but I feel Brandon's conclusions and advice is dangerous here, the tone also comes across arrogant and as if there is a competition to buck the norms or rush to add fish or what have you. This is dangerous, and for someone just starting in the hobby they likely don't know enough to understand your arguments and decide for themselves. - No offense Brandon.

If I understood OP right he added live rock, protein skimmer and three days later began adding fish. Given the deaths and remaining livestock it seems this was done in an aggressive fashion.

Adding too much livestock in a short period of time can absolutely overload the biological filter and increase ammonia. It can also lead to aggression. You can also introduce sickness due to lack of quarantine.

Test kits can report inaccurate, so of course source another test kit and confirm results. In a functioning reef, you do not see ammonia or nitrite. I personally run a seneye and have yet to see it register ammonia in my established system.

In an emergency, such as this, it is not the time to flaunt alternative methods or make declarative statements without information.

To OP:
Confirm test kits on ammonia/nitrite
Observe fish behaviour and share. Will indiciate either aggression or difficulty in breathing or sickness.


If it were me; I'd begin making water and doing as large water changes as I can as frequent as I can until I know a root cause. Short of human error; i've never seen an increase in water changes cause *more* issues.

Good luck.

I have a yellow tail that began hiding during Sunday water change and haven't seen him since. Otherwise all fish are alive and behaving normal today. No physical signs of anything being wrong. Do fish randomly hide and then die with no physical symptoms? Are there invisible pathogens? I made a Sunday water change and a Monday water change. Put in an order for salt andwill change again once it arrives.

 

[AllieBdot]

@AllieBdot

In my view, it seems that there is more than one issue, the biggest being a lack of quality guidance with your first tank.

1. API Test Kits: In general, the consensus is that API test kits leave something to be desired where accuracy is concerned. Personally, I use them as a way to do a quick test to monitor water conditions. And I use Red Sea test kits to confirm the API results when API is reporting something of concern. API will report the presence of ammonia, even when none exists.

2. Quarantine: In my experience, there are no circumstances under which a new fish should go directly into a display tank. Personally, I monitor a new fish purchase in quarantine for 90 days. And if they show signs of disease, I reset the 90 day clock once treatment is completed.

3. Go slow: There is an expression that those of us who have been in the hobby are familiar with; "Nothing good happens fast in this hobby". True. You MUST be patient. There are many things in life which we can own impulsively, but a reef tank isn't one of them. Unlike a new 60" TV, you don't pull it from the box, plug it in and enjoy.

Think of your reef tank as a garden; something that needs to be nurtured into the rich colors and aromatic blends we enjoy. It doesn't happen overnight.

4. Last: Based on your picture only, I would say that your tank is capable of supporting fish. But if you plan on adding corals at some point, you may want to consult here before doing so.

Please post a detailed list of your tank equipment so that proper guidance can be provided moving forward.

Good luck!
Dom

Great advice. I wish I found this all forum prior to jumping the gun. Tank is 110 gallon. Running two 350 bio power wheel filters. A protein skimmer and an Ecotech power head. Had 800 watts in halogen lights until last night when we broke one. Bought Radion xr30 blue today to replace.

 

[AllieBdot]

Welcome to R2R, nice looking tank. Can you tell us how long you cycled the tank before you added fish? What did you cycle the tank with? There should be no ammonia in your tank, it’s really bad for the fish.

Thank you!

 

[AllieBdot]

Welcome to the club. We all have many ways of doing things as you will see.
I think you can see that we all are very passionate about our animals and our reefs. That is a good thing. It sounds like you want to get it right too.
First off, what size tank do you have? It looks like pretty nice size.
Edit:
Now, when you said you started with live rock, was it shipped? From another running reef? From a lfs?
How long have you had each of the fish and I assume none went through QT? Are the clowns acting strange?
Do you have inverts besides the couple crabs and snails? Are they still alive?
These first questions will help me to get some answers for you.

the tank is 110 gallons. Everything in the tank came from reputable local specialty saltwater specific store (I've been visiting a few different ones and by reputable I mean I read Google reviews). I bought the rock/sand on April 7th and began with 8 damsels on April 10th. Every few days I added a couple more. No quarantine . The clowns were the last fish addition on April 21. A few days later came another bunch of crabs and snails (maybe 10) and 2 shrimp. I all the crabs and shrimp have founds homes behind the rocks so we don't see them often but the snails are all very active. As for clowns behavior I'm not exactly sure what normal be2havior is. Since they came home they spend most of their day swimming vertically under the power head. They even sleep this way. But they eat like little pigs when we feed them so I assumed that was normal?

 

[AllieBdot]

Thank you all for all the excellent advice and resources. I carefully read through all of it and truly appreciate you all taking the time to share your experience and wisdom. Last night I went out and found what I could. Local fish stores are keeping weird hours so I found what I could at a pet store with minimal saltwater options. I used Amquel ammonia detoxifier and Fuval biological booster along with a 10 percent water change- it's all I had enough salt on hand for. I don't know if it helped much but ammonia was down to .5 all day so that's a little better. Fish are eating normally with no signs of physical symptoms. I am still missing a yellow tail that I haven't seen since Sunday nights water change. Is there any invisible illness that can kill them? Last night I broke a light and was at the local shop today replacing it along with sourcing a proper qt/hospital tank. Should I still move the fish if no one is symptomatic as of right now? Is there a time frame to shoot for before adding additional fish (after quarantine moving forward)

 

[AllieBdot]

@Malifry97 I took this one as far as it could be taken friend. we're not evaluating the day after setup; its weeks with fish in place. If the majority feels this was a free ammonia tank, then follow their fix method for sure which is based around needing more bacteria. it will either stop fish loss or it wont.

So to recap your advice... My immature tank and poor cycling skills are probobly not the issue to cause strange behavior in fish and loss of 2 (potentially 3) fish. I should move forward by moving fish out of tank for a fallow period? And invest in some better monitoring equipment? And quarantine thoroughly before introducing anyone else?

 

[kyleThatGuy]

Plz do all you can to get that copperband as healthy as possible those little dudes go through hell lot’s die just getting to us and most starve to death If you have one eating you are very lucky so just know if this one doesn’t work out you are likely going to have to kill a few to find another good one

 

[AllieBdot]

I will do the very best I can for all of them. He seems to be acting normal today. Appears healthy and ate twice today. I do pride myself on being an animal lover and an excellent pet owner and feel incredibly guilty that I'm on a learning curve and these guys are my guinea pigs. I also did not realize that many common saltwater fish are not ethically sourced. I should have got another puppy. They are way easier

 

[Dom]

Great advice. I wish I found this all forum prior to jumping the gun. Tank is 110 gallon. Running two 350 bio power wheel filters. A protein skimmer and an Ecotech power head. Had 800 watts in halogen lights until last night when we broke one. Bought Radion xr30 blue today to replace.

Ok... please be sure to post before you add corals. It isn't enough to light up a tank, you need to have proper intensity.

 

[TheGreatBarrioReef]

The fact that you lost a domino damsel is bizarre. Those guys can even live in clorox

 

[AllieBdot]

Ok... please be sure to post before you add corals. It isn't enough to light up a tank, you need to have proper intensity.

We have about six little baby $10 frags in there that were actually seemingly growing with the halogen bulbs. LED just went in yesterday evening. The guy who said sold us the new LED said that it is plenty for now but we are going to need to add a second one in the future. Was this also ill advised?

 

[DeniseAndy]

Eventually you want to emulate the sun and the wavelengths needed for the algae inside corals to grow. Best lights are a debate for many. Decide if you want to go LED, T5s, MH or combination. All choices will work.
This is a decision you should make by doing research. Read about the options, then look at tanks using the lights and see what you like best. Some great stuff to see out there.

 

[Webslinger]

again...slow and steady brother!