Ich is now in tank... help with UV sterilizers / mitigation methods

[cdw79]

Long post- see TLDR at the bottom.

Finally got back into the hobby after getting sucked back in early during the pandemic. I started my system up in early September, a Reefer 300XL, and was determined to only add fish that had been properly quarantined (how topical for the time).

Because I live in a very small apartment, a QT tank at home was a virtually impossible task. Instead I made it a point to only buy quarantined fish from either reputable vendors online that QT'ed their livestock (such as Dr. Reef's) as well as one LFS that has an incredibly robust QT regimen. From there I built up to a healthy stock list.

Well, my dream fish comes along, from a well known and reputable guy who essentially is a wholesaler that sells directly to individuals. Amazing person, and it's been a pleasure getting to know them. But he has a dream fish, the final addition to my tank, so I pull the trigger. I decide that just this once, I'll take a risk and add directly- the fish had been sent directly to him and then directly to me, instead of tons of middle men with huge interconnected systems.

Well, as you can tell by the title, it was a terrible idea. I acclimated, kept him in an acclimation box, and released while there was only daylight on the tank. Sure enough, the blue's come on and it's got ich, no doubt about it. Confirmed w/ my vendor friend as well. Just my luck, and I've done it to myself. I've spent all day beating myself up over it, and I realize the magnanimity of my mistake. I just ask to please not beat me down further about it. I feel beyond awful right now and am just trying to try and remedy the situation.

But here's my situation. The fish itself, a supermale pintail fairy wrasse, is otherwise doing great- took to the tank immediately, ate already, not getting bullied at all, and is out enjoying the flow. So I'm cautiously optimistic it will survive. The part I'm worried about is that ich is now in the system, and I have no means to go fallow for the 76 days or whatever the lifespan of the parasite is given the limits of my living space. So because there is no reef-safe method to eliminate ich, I feel like now it's a matter of living with it, especially as I'm done adding fish (assuming none die because of the ich, so I hope).

One of the things I've seen from people who have accepted ich as part of their system is a UV sterilizer. The science of it all kind of boggles my mind, admittedly, so it's hard to know where to start or what to get. I have some space between the tank and back wall, so I was thinking a hang on back approach would be best given the very limited remaining space in the stand / sump area. I'm just not sure what to buy, how to dial in the flow (presumably from some sort of return pump, but not sure how I avoid it sucking in my sand bed), etc. I also was trying to learn more about mitigation techniques like feeding well, limiting stress, etc. but open to all suggestions. Any help on this would be incredibly appreciated- it's been a really rough day.

TLDR- Ich is now in my DT and I cannot go fallow for a variety of reasons. Any tips for mitigation approaches + how to choose/install a UV sterilizer to help? Thank you all

 

[MnFish1]

Long post- see TLDR at the bottom.

Finally got back into the hobby after getting sucked back in early during the pandemic. I started my system up in early September, a Reefer 300XL, and was determined to only add fish that had been properly quarantined (how topical for the time).

Because I live in a very small apartment, a QT tank at home was a virtually impossible task. Instead I made it a point to only buy quarantined fish from either reputable vendors online that QT'ed their livestock (such as Dr. Reef's) as well as one LFS that has an incredibly robust QT regimen. From there I built up to a healthy stock list.

Well, my dream fish comes along, from a well known and reputable guy who essentially is a wholesaler that sells directly to individuals. Amazing person, and it's been a pleasure getting to know them. But he has a dream fish, the final addition to my tank, so I pull the trigger. I decide that just this once, I'll take a risk and add directly- the fish had been sent directly to him and then directly to me, instead of tons of middle men with huge interconnected systems.

Well, as you can tell by the title, it was a terrible idea. I acclimated, kept him in an acclimation box, and released while there was only daylight on the tank. Sure enough, the blue's come on and it's got ich, no doubt about it. Confirmed w/ my vendor friend as well. Just my luck, and I've done it to myself. I've spent all day beating myself up over it, and I realize the magnanimity of my mistake. I just ask to please not beat me down further about it. I feel beyond awful right now and am just trying to try and remedy the situation.

But here's my situation. The fish itself, a supermale pintail fairy wrasse, is otherwise doing great- took to the tank immediately, ate already, not getting bullied at all, and is out enjoying the flow. So I'm cautiously optimistic it will survive. The part I'm worried about is that ich is now in the system, and I have no means to go fallow for the 76 days or whatever the lifespan of the parasite is given the limits of my living space. So because there is no reef-safe method to eliminate ich, I feel like now it's a matter of living with it, especially as I'm done adding fish (assuming none die because of the ich, so I hope).

One of the things I've seen from people who have accepted ich as part of their system is a UV sterilizer. The science of it all kind of boggles my mind, admittedly, so it's hard to know where to start or what to get. I have some space between the tank and back wall, so I was thinking a hang on back approach would be best given the very limited remaining space in the stand / sump area. I'm just not sure what to buy, how to dial in the flow (presumably from some sort of return pump, but not sure how I avoid it sucking in my sand bed), etc. I also was trying to learn more about mitigation techniques like feeding well, limiting stress, etc. but open to all suggestions. Any help on this would be incredibly appreciated- it's been a really rough day.

TLDR- Ich is now in my DT and I cannot go fallow for a variety of reasons. Any tips for mitigation approaches + how to choose/install a UV sterilizer to help? Thank you all

IMHO - you can try the UV - making sure you have a way to measure the flow so that you dont have too much and not too little. Also iMHO - UV is a placebo - i.e. fish do ok with it - and without it. (many fish survive ich) - BUT - it can be helpful when adding new fish. The other things IHO - are Low stocking density - favor corals over fish , excellent foods, and excellent stable water quality. You can look at @Lasse 's method

 

[polyppal]

UV isn’t going to eradicate ich… Rehome corals/inverts and start hyposalinity treatment

 

[cdw79]

IMHO - you can try the UV - making sure you have a way to measure the flow so that you dont have too much and not too little. Also iMHO - UV is a placebo - i.e. fish do ok with it - and without it. (many fish survive ich) - BUT - it can be helpful when adding new fish. The other things IHO - are Low stocking density - favor corals over fish , excellent foods, and excellent stable water quality. You can look at @Lasse 's method

I'm 100% done with adding any fish at this point, this was always supposed to be the final addition. I dose MB7 daily to help keep nutrients in check, and use my trident's adjusted dosing for All, Ca, and MG to keep those steady. I've been trying to add more kinds of frozen foods to my rotation, especially as I've had such a difficult time getting all of my fish to like one kind of pellet (it's always a combination of them, but not all). Is there anything else I can be doing outside the UV?

 

[MnFish1]

I'm 100% done with adding any fish at this point, this was always supposed to be the final addition. I dose MB7 daily to help keep nutrients in check, and use my trident's adjusted dosing for All, Ca, and MG to keep those steady. I've been trying to add more kinds of frozen foods to my rotation, especially as I've had such a difficult time getting all of my fish to like one kind of pellet (it's always a combination of them, but not all). Is there anything else I can be doing outside the UV?

Wait. IMHO - most of what you 'can do' is a placebo. Keep things stable. Add the UV if you want - you can also try dosing peroxide - there are at least a couple protocols for that.

 

[kadamik]

Long post- see TLDR at the bottom.

Finally got back into the hobby after getting sucked back in early during the pandemic. I started my system up in early September, a Reefer 300XL, and was determined to only add fish that had been properly quarantined (how topical for the time).

Because I live in a very small apartment, a QT tank at home was a virtually impossible task. Instead I made it a point to only buy quarantined fish from either reputable vendors online that QT'ed their livestock (such as Dr. Reef's) as well as one LFS that has an incredibly robust QT regimen. From there I built up to a healthy stock list.

Well, my dream fish comes along, from a well known and reputable guy who essentially is a wholesaler that sells directly to individuals. Amazing person, and it's been a pleasure getting to know them. But he has a dream fish, the final addition to my tank, so I pull the trigger. I decide that just this once, I'll take a risk and add directly- the fish had been sent directly to him and then directly to me, instead of tons of middle men with huge interconnected systems.

Well, as you can tell by the title, it was a terrible idea. I acclimated, kept him in an acclimation box, and released while there was only daylight on the tank. Sure enough, the blue's come on and it's got ich, no doubt about it. Confirmed w/ my vendor friend as well. Just my luck, and I've done it to myself. I've spent all day beating myself up over it, and I realize the magnanimity of my mistake. I just ask to please not beat me down further about it. I feel beyond awful right now and am just trying to try and remedy the situation.

But here's my situation. The fish itself, a supermale pintail fairy wrasse, is otherwise doing great- took to the tank immediately, ate already, not getting bullied at all, and is out enjoying the flow. So I'm cautiously optimistic it will survive. The part I'm worried about is that ich is now in the system, and I have no means to go fallow for the 76 days or whatever the lifespan of the parasite is given the limits of my living space. So because there is no reef-safe method to eliminate ich, I feel like now it's a matter of living with it, especially as I'm done adding fish (assuming none die because of the ich, so I hope).

One of the things I've seen from people who have accepted ich as part of their system is a UV sterilizer. The science of it all kind of boggles my mind, admittedly, so it's hard to know where to start or what to get. I have some space between the tank and back wall, so I was thinking a hang on back approach would be best given the very limited remaining space in the stand / sump area. I'm just not sure what to buy, how to dial in the flow (presumably from some sort of return pump, but not sure how I avoid it sucking in my sand bed), etc. I also was trying to learn more about mitigation techniques like feeding well, limiting stress, etc. but open to all suggestions. Any help on this would be incredibly appreciated- it's been a really rough day.

TLDR- Ich is now in my DT and I cannot go fallow for a variety of reasons. Any tips for mitigation approaches + how to choose/install a UV sterilizer to help? Thank you all

Not sure if we can post links from other sites by if I was in your spot I would try this, it is from humble fish

How To - Peroxide (H2O2) dosing for parasites in reef tank

***Current dosing recommendation for active outbreaks, using 3% hydrogen peroxide*** (a TLDR for people who just need to know how to get started) Week 1: 1mL/8g, 3x per day Week 2: 1mL/5g, 3x per day Week 3: 1mL/5g, 3x per day, plus overnight dosing. Continue the week 3 dosing regimen for a...

humble.fish

 

[vetteguy53081]

UV will only address new cysts that pass through the tube and not pre-existing on fish.
Best defense is use of coppersafe in a quarantine setting for a full 30 days at therapuetic levels 2.25-2.5 at 80 degrees and levels monitored by a reliable copper test kit ad leaving display fishless for 45-60 days

 

[cdw79]

Not sure if we can post links from other sites by if I was in your spot I would try this, it is from humble fish

How To - Peroxide (H2O2) dosing for parasites in reef tank

***Current dosing recommendation for active outbreaks, using 3% hydrogen peroxide*** (a TLDR for people who just need to know how to get started) Week 1: 1mL/8g, 3x per day Week 2: 1mL/5g, 3x per day Week 3: 1mL/5g, 3x per day, plus overnight dosing. Continue the week 3 dosing regimen for a...

humble.fish

I was just now reading that article based on one of the comments above. I'm just not sure how you dose so frequently at night and still sleep, unless you have to buy another dosing pump just for H2O2. Granted I haven't read through all the comments yet, but are there any dangers of some kind of overdose? I'm not especially familiar with this method.

I'm confident I can keep aggression down (there is virtually none in the tank), keep water quality stable, and feed high quality foods (I tend to feed pellets in the mornings but can stop that if that's not in the high-quality category, as seems to be the case). And there will be no more fish additions. So I'm trying to see if there are other mitigating measures I can take.

And is the general feeling that the UV sterilizers won't actually do much? Ideally I figure I should do everything possible to maximize the chances all fish can thrive, but if it doesn't do much in peoples' experiences would it be reasonable to focus on the measures above especially given no new fish will be added?

 

[cdw79]

The more I read the more it seems that people often add these to their regimen for dealing with ich in display- even that H2O2 article references stopping the treatment eventually and going to UV, so I'm leaning to just doing it. But I'm not sure how to pick one / set it up in the display

 

[jmichaelh7]

UV sterilizer will keep white spots at bay. Otherwise they will multiply and multiply until the fish die.

This is a topic that has been discussed on other threads with a hundred of pages.

I would get a big UV and plumb it in your return or if possible on its own pump so that it can be at a flow rated for parasites.

One thing I won’t believe is ich medication that you feed and ich dies. However the copper treatment works if you can withhold cross contamination for 76 days

 

[mehaffydr]

Depending on how many corals you have if they can be removed I would go with Hyposalinity. I did it on my 1100 gallon display and I have had no signs of ich.

 

[Spare time]

Yeah it might be a good idea to just get a tiny tank like a 10 or 20 gallon for inverts to qt. I think this would be doable in an apartment setting

 

[jmichaelh7]

The question is , once your done with hyposalinity or copper treatment, what ever treatment you choose to do, what is your handling methods moving forward? You can easily re-introduce again. That's the overwhelming part

 

[Beau_B]

I have been where you are. Ran without any QT let nature run... Had an outbreak and lost half. Did full QT, fallow 80 days... Then crypto found it's way in months later.

150g total system: Installed a 55W Lifeguard Pro-max (3") on a dedicated DC Jebao pump at 400gpm 16 months ago.

Early on I would still see a couple spots from time to time, but I haven't seen anything in months now despite adding additonal fish.

 

[jmichaelh7]

I have been where you are. Ran without any QT let nature run... Had an outbreak and lost half. Did full QT, fallow 80 days... Then crypto found it's way in months later.

150g total system: Installed a 55W Lifeguard Pro-max (3") on a dedicated DC Jebao pump at 400gpm 16 months ago.

Early on I would still see a couple spots from time to time, but I haven't seen anything in months now despite adding additonal fish.

I spent a lot of money and time to do quarantine , fallow for 76 days. The week i put my fish back my clown had a white spot that week.

i think quarantine is the way to go don't get me wrong but you need to be consistent with what goes in, down to the fish net, anything!

What does the OP have in mind

 

[Spare time]

The question is , once your done with hyposalinity or copper treatment, what ever treatment you choose to do, what is your handling methods moving forward? You can easily re-introduce again. That's the overwhelming part

OP said they are done adding fish

 

[Spare time]

UV sterilizer will keep white spots at bay. Otherwise they will multiply and multiply until the fish die.

This is a topic that has been discussed on other threads with a hundred of pages.

I would get a big UV and plumb it in your return or if possible on its own pump so that it can be at a flow rated for parasites.

One thing I won’t believe is ich medication that you feed and ich dies. However the copper treatment works if you can withhold cross contamination for 76 days

Copper only needs to be 30 days at the right temp

 

[MnFish1]

I was just now reading that article based on one of the comments above. I'm just not sure how you dose so frequently at night and still sleep, unless you have to buy another dosing pump just for H2O2. Granted I haven't read through all the comments yet, but are there any dangers of some kind of overdose? I'm not especially familiar with this method.

I'm confident I can keep aggression down (there is virtually none in the tank), keep water quality stable, and feed high quality foods (I tend to feed pellets in the mornings but can stop that if that's not in the high-quality category, as seems to be the case). And there will be no more fish additions. So I'm trying to see if there are other mitigating measures I can take.

And is the general feeling that the UV sterilizers won't actually do much? Ideally I figure I should do everything possible to maximize the chances all fish can thrive, but if it doesn't do much in peoples' experiences would it be reasonable to focus on the measures above especially given no new fish will be added?

I dont think there is a general feeling. its my feeling. Some people swear by them. I never noticed a difference with or without one - plus changing bulbs, etc - can be a hassle

 

[jmichaelh7]

I dont think there is a general feeling. its my feeling. Some people swear by them. I never noticed a difference with or without one - plus changing bulbs, etc - can be a hassle

I think majority of reefers have UV plumbed. That would be a good poll out of curiosity

 

[Lasse]

An important question - are you fish sick at the moment? Whit other words - do you have an outbreak now on that fish or other at the moment? How long time has gone since you see the first spots? Whatever anyone says about UV-C - it will at least not get the situation worse and its effective in controlling the amount of free swimming parasites that past through the UV-C tubes. But you have to run it 7/24 - not only when you have outbreaks. Best is to have the intake separate in the DT and close to the bottom.

H2O2 treatment (and also a combination of the two methods) is also an alternative. Dose as in the linked protocol or use an Oxidator - Oxidator - look for threads here or join the Oxydator group on Facebook.

Ozone is a third method in order to bring down the amount of free swimming parasites

As I understand it - a fallow period is not actual - but if things gets worse - e.g. more and more spots on more and more fish - I would try to catch all fishes that show symptoms and treat them with the tank transfer method. When I have done that - I have always used buckets. smal circulation pump, no feeding, darkness and WC /transfer each day.

If you chose the path of mitigation approach in this situation - the critical point is to get down the number of parasites that will hatch in the sand bed in the coming weeks before they reach a host. The path I would stagger on in this situation is to remove the infected fish as soon as possible (yje source) - get two 10- 20 L buckets. two small circulation pumps and start TTM with these. In WC - use 50/50 fresh mixed water/tank water. Calm and no feed. When fish free of parasites - back to the DT if it looks good in the DT. During the time with TTM of affected fish - install a UV-C/ozon generator/H2O2 treatment in order to kill as much hatched parasites as possible. There is UV-C and UV-C. I´m from Europe - I do not know which brand of UV-C is best in the US - but I normally use UV-C from TMC (vecton and pro product line) and I think they are possible to buy in US too. IMO - you should use an over dimensioned UV-c in order to get as much as possible of your DT water to pass trough per time unit if you can handle the extra heat. This is an old website - but - IMO - a goldmine for all that want to no about how to use UV-C in aquarium. He also recommend TMC products and I have personal experiences of that type of UV-C method they use and its works.

I do not know if you are familiar with the cycle of the marine ich - parasite or not. To be sure I show it in a figure from Marine depot

Sincerely Lasse