Ich is now in tank... help with UV sterilizers / mitigation methods

[MnFish1]

Here is a good review - however they do not mention UV-C, Ozone and H2O2 - but other rather interesting methods - one there you use sand that sucks up and replaces every day........ They do also state



Sincerely Lasse

Do you think this is why tanks with lower stocking density do 'better' with ich management. I.e. the total surface area of all of the fish - not the 'number'. I.e. 5 large tangs in a 40 gallon tank would be much more likely to have a lethal outbreak of cryptocaryon - than a 40 gallon tank with 5 small gobies?

 

[Lasse]

A good link is done this way

Copy the adress from the actual website

Mark " a good link is done this way"

Click on this tool You get this window - and paste your webadress - press insert

And you get the result

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Lasse]

New research indicate that fish in some way tell the psleeping just above the bottom substrate or in caves become more easily infected at night when the parasite larvae hatch and seek a host compared with fish in the upper layers

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Lasse]

Haha, no - I'm in Canada.

I see - but thank you for the link to a place in my hometown that I did not know about It will probably be a target my for next night on the town.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[cdw79]

I'm still just confused as to what I should ultimately do in the short and medium term to mitigate things. We've passed the 24 hour mark and still no signs on other fish, but I feel like I need to be doing at least something

 

[kevgib67]

Long post- see TLDR at the bottom.

Finally got back into the hobby after getting sucked back in early during the pandemic. I started my system up in early September, a Reefer 300XL, and was determined to only add fish that had been properly quarantined (how topical for the time).

Because I live in a very small apartment, a QT tank at home was a virtually impossible task. Instead I made it a point to only buy quarantined fish from either reputable vendors online that QT'ed their livestock (such as Dr. Reef's) as well as one LFS that has an incredibly robust QT regimen. From there I built up to a healthy stock list.

Well, my dream fish comes along, from a well known and reputable guy who essentially is a wholesaler that sells directly to individuals. Amazing person, and it's been a pleasure getting to know them. But he has a dream fish, the final addition to my tank, so I pull the trigger. I decide that just this once, I'll take a risk and add directly- the fish had been sent directly to him and then directly to me, instead of tons of middle men with huge interconnected systems.

Well, as you can tell by the title, it was a terrible idea. I acclimated, kept him in an acclimation box, and released while there was only daylight on the tank. Sure enough, the blue's come on and it's got ich, no doubt about it. Confirmed w/ my vendor friend as well. Just my luck, and I've done it to myself. I've spent all day beating myself up over it, and I realize the magnanimity of my mistake. I just ask to please not beat me down further about it. I feel beyond awful right now and am just trying to try and remedy the situation.

But here's my situation. The fish itself, a supermale pintail fairy wrasse, is otherwise doing great- took to the tank immediately, ate already, not getting bullied at all, and is out enjoying the flow. So I'm cautiously optimistic it will survive. The part I'm worried about is that ich is now in the system, and I have no means to go fallow for the 76 days or whatever the lifespan of the parasite is given the limits of my living space. So because there is no reef-safe method to eliminate ich, I feel like now it's a matter of living with it, especially as I'm done adding fish (assuming none die because of the ich, so I hope).

One of the things I've seen from people who have accepted ich as part of their system is a UV sterilizer. The science of it all kind of boggles my mind, admittedly, so it's hard to know where to start or what to get. I have some space between the tank and back wall, so I was thinking a hang on back approach would be best given the very limited remaining space in the stand / sump area. I'm just not sure what to buy, how to dial in the flow (presumably from some sort of return pump, but not sure how I avoid it sucking in my sand bed), etc. I also was trying to learn more about mitigation techniques like feeding well, limiting stress, etc. but open to all suggestions. Any help on this would be incredibly appreciated- it's been a really rough day.

TLDR- Ich is now in my DT and I cannot go fallow for a variety of reasons. Any tips for mitigation approaches + how to choose/install a UV sterilizer to help? Thank you all

All the information provided is spot on, however a lot of the advice ( imo the best way to deal with ich) is something you are not able to do . I think what you are looking for is Ich management. There is a thread on ich management which many have been successful and gone years without it’s return. It focuses on nutrition, selcon, vita chem and garlic supplements, uv sterilizer and use of rallypro. When you read the thread there is some controversy on certain things, but it’s something you may be able to do with your limited space and time. Good luck!

 

[cdw79]

All the information provided is spot on, however a lot of the advice ( imo the best way to deal with ich) is something you are not able to do . I think what you are looking for is Ich management. There is a thread on ich management which many have been successful and gone years without it’s return. It focuses on nutrition, selcon, vita chem and garlic supplements, uv sterilizer and use of rallypro. When you read the thread there is some controversy on certain things, but it’s something you may be able to do with your limited space and time. Good luck!

Could you possibly link the thread? I'm thinking this is the solution best for me at this stage, albeit not a very kosher one. My LFS has recommended a 15 watt submersible UV sterilizer for the DT I am planning on picking up tomorrow, so that's my current plan

 

[Tamberav]

Could you possibly link the thread? I'm thinking this is the solution best for me at this stage, albeit not a very kosher one. My LFS has recommended a 15 watt submersible UV sterilizer for the DT I am planning on picking up tomorrow, so that's my current plan

what size is your tank? 15w sounds way too small for most tanks for ich.

 

[damsels are not mean]

If you are done adding fish I think it's not a big deal. Healthy fish will fight it off. It's new, stressed fish that are at risk.

 

[MnFish1]

I'm still just confused as to what I should ultimately do in the short and medium term to mitigate things. We've passed the 24 hour mark and still no signs on other fish, but I feel like I need to be doing at least something

You should not be confused - everyone here has given you the 'gold standard' - even some that perform 'ich management' - the difference is a quarantine situation as compared to a treatment situation. A treatment situation is trickier than a quarantine situation. Treatment (of a known disease present on the fish) - means - treat them. Picture covid - you're exposed to covid you quarantine - so as not to infect other people. You test positive - and cant breath - you go to the hospital.

You should not be confused - everyone has said the same thing - basically - which is separate and treat your fish. You have said 'you cant do that'. Ok - thats ok - you're risking death of your fish - and or they will survive. Time will tell - but you should not be confused. I'm not trying to be mean or rude or critical - but - the advice you've gotten is all correct depending on which direction you want or can go. IMHO. I hope your fish do well.

 

[cdw79]

what size is your tank? 15w sounds way too small for most tanks for ich.

80 gallons if you count the sump, though with the large amount of LR I have in there, deep sandbed, etc the actual water volume is decently lower I'd say

 

[MnFish1]

PS - here is a link I posted in another thread: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0044848621012618

I do not know of anyone that recommends UV as a 'treatment' for CI or any other illness - but rather as a preventative. I would use the data that this article provides to decide how much UV you should buy. You may have to pay for the full article.

 

[Lavey29]

I have been told from local LFS guy that pure ginger extract mixed in the food will help reduce ich in the tank for fish. I have not tried this personally but would if the situation presented itself.

 

[kevgib67]

Could you possibly link the thread? I'm thinking this is the solution best for me at this stage, albeit not a very kosher one. My LFS has recommended a 15 watt submersible UV sterilizer for the DT I am planning on picking up tomorrow, so that's my current plan

Go to the search on the upper right side and search “are you ich management “ the thread was started 12/16/21. I hope you will find what you’re looking for.

 

[cdw79]

You should not be confused - everyone here has given you the 'gold standard' - even some that perform 'ich management' - the difference is a quarantine situation as compared to a treatment situation. A treatment situation is trickier than a quarantine situation. Treatment (of a known disease present on the fish) - means - treat them. Picture covid - you're exposed to covid you quarantine - so as not to infect other people. You test positive - and cant breath - you go to the hospital.

You should not be confused - everyone has said the same thing - basically - which is separate and treat your fish. You have said 'you cant do that'. Ok - thats ok - you're risking death of your fish - and or they will survive. Time will tell - but you should not be confused. I'm not trying to be mean or rude or critical - but - the advice you've gotten is all correct depending on which direction you want or can go. IMHO. I hope your fish do well.

With the utmost respect, it's just a lot to take in and there have been some variable opinions about treatment methods, so I think it's fair to be a little bit confused as someone dealing with this for essentially the first time. I appreciate the spirit of what you're saying, though, and it's very much appreciated. It is just quite the task to try and start up a whole treatment setup given my current situation. Like I said, if that is the way things need to go and no other option is reasonable, then I'll find a way. But reading about ich management, seemingly few people take the fish removal route and instead seem to focus on therapeutic approaches, so when I see both at the same time it can be a little confusing as to what approach to take and why. I'm just trying to understand the nature of the options and whether a management approach requires a full separate set up that I fear might further stress a decently sized fish, or whether mitigation approaches in the system itself can boost its/their immune systems enough to where I can leave it in the display in its largely unstressed state (minus the ich, of course) and maximize its chances of survival.

Just trying my best, and I appreciate all of the time and effort people have put into helping

 

[Tamberav]

Could you possibly link the thread? I'm thinking this is the solution best for me at this stage, albeit not a very kosher one. My LFS has recommended a 15 watt submersible UV sterilizer for the DT I am planning on picking up tomorrow, so that's my current plan

ya 15w isn't going to cut it imo... the bigger the uv the faster you can run the turnover and the more effective it will be. I currently run a lifeguard 55w on my 80g.

Jay posted earlier 185,000 to kill ich...

So you need to know what the UV produces (I think most name brand are 30,000)

and then there is some math to find out flow rate you need and so on... if the UV is too small then you won't be able to turn over the water through it fast enough to have much impact.

Please keep in mind a good brand UV is a couple hundred dollars.

 

[MnFish1]

With the utmost respect, it's just a lot to take in and there have been some variable opinions about treatment methods, so I think it's fair to be a little bit confused as someone dealing with this for essentially the first time. I appreciate the spirit of what you're saying, though, and it's very much appreciated. It is just quite the task to try and start up a whole treatment setup given my current situation. Like I said, if that is the way things need to go and no other option is reasonable, then I'll find a way. But reading about ich management, seemingly few people take the fish removal route and instead seem to focus on therapeutic approaches, so when I see both at the same time it can be a little confusing as to what approach to take and why. I'm just trying to understand the nature of the options and whether a management approach requires a full separate set up that I fear might further stress a decently sized fish, or whether mitigation approaches in the system itself can boost its/their immune systems enough to where I can leave it in the display in its largely unstressed state (minus the ich, of course) and maximize its chances of survival.

Just trying my best, and I appreciate all of the time and effort people have put into helping

it wasn't meant as a criticism - it was meant more as 'you have the options for what you can do'. I hope your fish do well no matter what you do - If you absolutely cannot do 'treatment' - a UV (large) - is not a bad decision, for example.

 

[cdw79]

No I understand, and do appreciate the feedback and recommendations. It's quite the scary thing to deal with, so tips from the experts are incredibly helpful.

My current thought (and please tell me if this seems misguided) is if the new addition remains active, calm, eating, essentially acting "healthy" in all the other aspects bar ich, I'm thinking I bite the bullet on a hefty UV sterilizer and take all the previously mentioned measures- vitamin enriching their frozen foods, feeding well, keeping nutrients low / generally keeping extra close tabs on water, assuring there is no aggression, etc.

But I figure if that particular fish's condition declines and/or I start to see ich breaking out and starting to affect other fish, then I pull however many I can, go ahead any buy a treatment tank with separate everything, treat the struggling fish, and still stick a big UV on the back + take the mitigating treatments above. I just realistically don't think I can get everything out without totally destroying the tank (my little Biota mandarin will be next to impossible to catch unless the glued and encrusted scape is fully torn apart).

So based on some of the advice here, this seems like a decent plan, albeit not perfectly kosher. But regardless it's going to undoubtedly command a hefty price for the UV- no more coral budget for awhile, lol.

Does anyone have a recommendation for a good UV sterilizer + pump fitted for an 80 gallon system (reefer 300XL) that could do the job? It would probably have to be mounted to the back of the tank, but I have several inches between the tank and the wall. I saw @Tamberav recommended a Lifeguard 55w, if this is the best option is there a standard pump that would fit the flow needs properly?

Thanks again everyone for all the help here. Glad I'm avoiding a money trap in that tiny UV

 

[MnFish1]

No I understand, and do appreciate the feedback and recommendations. It's quite the scary thing to deal with, so tips from the experts are incredibly helpful.

My current thought (and please tell me if this seems misguided) is if the new addition remains active, calm, eating, essentially acting "healthy" in all the other aspects bar ich, I'm thinking I bite the bullet on a hefty UV sterilizer and take all the previously mentioned measures- vitamin enriching their frozen foods, feeding well, keeping nutrients low / generally keeping extra close tabs on water, assuring there is no aggression, etc.

But I figure if that particular fish's condition declines and/or I start to see ich breaking out and starting to affect other fish, then I pull however many I can, go ahead any buy a treatment tank with separate everything, treat the struggling fish, and still stick a big UV on the back + take the mitigating treatments above. I just realistically don't think I can get everything out without totally destroying the tank (my little Biota mandarin will be next to impossible to catch unless the glued and encrusted scape is fully torn apart).

So based on some of the advice here, this seems like a decent plan, albeit not perfectly kosher. But regardless it's going to undoubtedly command a hefty price for the UV- no more coral budget for awhile, lol.

Does anyone have a recommendation for a good UV sterilizer + pump fitted for an 80 gallon system (reefer 300XL) that could do the job? It would probably have to be mounted to the back of the tank, but I have several inches between the tank and the wall. I saw @Tamberav recommended a Lifeguard 55w, if this is the best option is there a standard pump that would fit the flow needs properly?

Thanks again everyone for all the help here. Glad I'm avoiding a money trap in that tiny UV

I think if thats what you can do - thats what you do. I do not have a specific UV recommendation. Best wishes with the fish and tank

 

[Tamberav]

Basically the biggest you can afford that fits means you can turn your water over faster though it killing more parasites. If the UV is small then you have to run the flow slower which means less turnover and less parasites killed. That is the idea anywyas. For me, that was a 55w that fit my sump. Lifeguard UV is fantastic product and I liked it much more then my Aqua UV I had before. It’s also cheaper which makes no sense cuz it is built much better. Ha.

ofc it may not help and you may still get ich or you may not need it and ich will get under control naturally. No one can say.