Is "it's just surface rust" an acceptable answer?

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Yeah man, that definitely would appear to be some sort of steel alloy.

I'd challenge you to ask the company for what alloy (and manufacturer if you're really motivated) that shaft is made out of.


I always wondered about this. I am a non-GFO user myself. Curious though how with GFO you don't have any heavy metal issues? maybe @Randy Holmes-Farley can explain as i don't exactly know what GFO is chemically. There is something to be said though that in some cases, rust can have a shielding effect and protect the underlying metal from continuing to corrode. I forget exactly what cases oxidation shields and in other cases it continues to penetrate (like on your old school car for example....rust can eat straight through your steel fenders). One thing I think i recall (again, i'm a non-GFO user) isn't flow rate through your GFO reactor a big deal? Isn't it normally a very slow flow so that you don't get tumbling of the GFO for reasons of micro bits chipping off and contaminating the water?

interesting discussion....one day we will get to the bottom of this....maybe

Iron is no concern. That is the metal in GFO.

Steel has lots of other metals intentionally there at high concentration (depending on the exact alloy used). Other metals in alloys could be more of a concern (or they may not be high enough to be any issue at all). Nickel, tin, chromium, etc.

 

[LobsterOfJustice]

As soon as I read the title I knew you were talking about vortech powerheads because I run them also. Just wait until the case holding the magnet splits and you realize it is full of rust also.

Does anyone here have any rust on your Tunze powerheads? I'm looking to add two more and Ecotech's failure to do anything about this is seriously making me want to abandon ship. That and this piece of crap reeflink that has to be the worst piece of hardware/software I've ever had the misfortune to use.

There is a known issue with the magnet mount of Tunzes rusting as well, and their stance is the same - aesthetic only, doesn’t matter. Do a google image search of “tunze rust” and you will get plenty of examples.

 

[madweazl]

Do you run anything that could be absorbing the minor amounts of heavies? Chemipure, poly-filter, triton detox? Also, your tank says it's 75gal? and MP40's aren't that big right, so you probably only have a couple square inches of exposed metallic surface to water?

I don't actively employ anything for removal but do have a refugium that would likely utilize small amounts of various metals. As for the surface area, that is extremely small and localized to the impeller shaft. I've not had an issue with the magnets (knock on wood).

 

[KMench]

316 L stainless steel with PVD coating was their response.

 

[JoshKReef]

I also sent a follow up, I kind of went on a rant, but I'll paste it anyway, and the response.

I do not believe it is affecting the functionality, but I do believe that the rust is leeching into my system. I take very good care of my equipment, and a vinegar soak happens once a month, you can even see the brush in the background. The pictures show the rust outside of the ceramic sleeve, but what do you think is underneath (that sleeve isn't removable right?)?

I am a little disappointed that I spent this much money on 4 power heads, they all were put into the same tank on the same day, and two have this issue. Why wouldn't all 4 have this issue if this was expected/normal wear and tear? Also, is there a version of the MP40 where the entire pin is ceramic, like the MP10? Should I be expecting to dish out 75 bucks every year to replace my wet side if I am not comfortable with the rust that may or may not appear on the wet side?

Sending them both in for service can't work for me, but my curiosity has me wondering, how do you service this issue? Are you just going to try to soak / clean off the rust? Or sand it off?

I have used Tunze / Rossmont for water movement before "upgrading" to the MP40s, and opening them up for maintenance and seeing rust less than a year after purchase was quite the disappointment.

Sorry for the rant.

Response:

That amount of discoloration should not make a difference in the tank. That said, per my manage, we will need to see the units in for service first before we can replace them.

I probably will send 1 in to see what they say, then send in the other a different time. Has anyone sent any back and gotten replacements?

 

[KMench]

Yeah, I’ve sent in my dry side before. But only after they sent me a replacement with a prepaid return box included. I don’t want the flow in my tank altered for their convieniece ya know ;Bored

 

[JoshKReef]

Yeah, I’ve sent in my dry side before. But only after they sent me a replacement with a prepaid return box included. I don’t want the flow in my tank altered for their convieniece ya know ;Bored

Did you call, or organize it through email?

 

[KMench]

Email. They were really nice about it. My dry side took a giant dump and started rattling like crazy just a few weeks after I got it last summer so I emailed and they sent me a new one. I then sent them the old one in the return box

 

[JoshKReef]

Interesting, they won't do anything like that for me. They want me to send it in for service, and at that point they will either fix it, or deem it replaceable.

 

[KMench]

I would call them. That’s poor service for the price paid for these items. Speaking of poor service like that, Vitamix made us mail back our blender so they could repair it when I only gave it two mo this ago as a Christmas present. They had the blender for weeks ;Stop

 

[ca1ore]

Few things (well, maybe more than a few):

1. The newer Mp10 wetsides have a ceramic center spindle but the older ones did not. Go back far enough and they were a metal spindle.
2. I run 9 vortechs across my system with newer wetsides and they all show that brown discoloration where the metal spindle protrudes from the ceramic sheath. I have never noted any negative correlations.
3. Splitting magnets was mostly a problem in early MP40 QD models, and as far as I know they were all replaced under warranty. I must have been lucky, because have had no issues with any of mine over a long period of time.
4. I have found ETM customer service to be mostly reasonable ..... as long as I was reasonable LOL
5. Make sure you run them with the proper spacer and support the dryside; have seen countless installations where this was not done - no wonder they fail prematurely.

 

[Jmas4]

I know rusting is bad for the tank and it is best to prevent it and clean as much as possible (although it is the manufacturers fault as well) but doesn't carbon help? On many descriptions it says it will absorb heavy metals. So if you clean well and have carbon, the small amount of metals leached into the tank will be absorbed and there for harmless. Or am I completely wrong.

 

[Scorpius]

The MP-10 wet sides I have are a metal core with an outer ceramic sleeve.

 

[Potatohead]

The MP-10 wet sides I have are a metal core with an outer ceramic sleeve.

Are they older? Mine are all ceramic, unless the metal is completely encased and not exposed on the end like the pics in the OP.

 

[shred5]

JB NJ had a triton test and found high levels of tungsten. He found his mp40 shaft rusted. I guess he replaced it with a old mp40 shaft that was ceramic I believe.

Also GFO is rust but its different. Different metals have different amounts of impurities and metals in them. Throw a penny in your tank and see what happens. Your tank would crash. Randy Probably can explain it better.. When metals rust or oxidixze in saltwater they release different metals and other impurities and heavy matals are really not good for your reef. Steel and copper are pretty bad metals. Gfo can remove some metals from what I understand.

I have been seeing allot of people complaining about their mp40 shafts rusting.

Some people might be running stuff like polyfilters and certain resins remove heavy metals so they most see a significant rise right away.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I know rusting is bad for the tank and it is best to prevent it and clean as much as possible (although it is the manufacturers fault as well) but doesn't carbon help? On many descriptions it says it will absorb heavy metals. So if you clean well and have carbon, the small amount of metals leached into the tank will be absorbed and there for harmless. Or am I completely wrong.

That's a complicated question. GAC likely doesn't bind heavy metals directly from seawater, but many metals are bound to organics and many organics are in turn bound to GAC. There are lots of ways that metals are exported from reef tanks, but most people do not find GAC alone solves elevated heavy metal problems the way the intentional metal binders can.

Additionally, we want many metals as well, and many of the same ones (chromium, nickel, iron, cobalt, etc.). Tin is one of the few that we get that has no use in a reef tank, but many other trace metals do. So we want an appropriate amount, not too high or too low. It's a balancing act.

I discuss sources and sinks for metals in reef tanks here:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-04/rhf/feature/index.php

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

JB NJ had a triton test and found high levels of tungsten. He found his mp40 shaft rusted. I guess he replaced it with a old mp40 shaft that was ceramic I believe.

Wow, I've never seen an ICP test on tank water showing tungsten.

 

[ca1ore]

Are they older? Mine are all ceramic, unless the metal is completely encased and not exposed on the end like the pics in the OP.

I think the wetside in that picture was the MP40. Newer MP40 wetsides do have the metal end exposed. The older MP40 wetsides were a completely different design that used a plastic bolt as the drive shaft. Older MP10 wetsides actually had just a metal shaft; all of my newer ones have a ceramic shaft without any metal protruding from the end.

 

[Scorpius]

I just bought a new mp-10 wetside from BRS. It has a metal core with ceramic exterior. The end of the shaft is exposed and I can see metal.

 

[MarsRover]

I just bought a new mp-10 wetside from BRS. It has a metal core with ceramic exterior. The end of the shaft is exposed and I can see metal.

If it was me, i'd just put a dab of silicone on that to seal it just to be safe! can't hurt...

just a thin film though.... you dont want to unbalance the rotating mass