LFS detective work!

[Sabellafella]

But its parameters should be in check, which tells me that before I invest in any livestock from LFS I will be asking point blank: what were your water parameters for the last month? Also, if I order online, I will also be testing that water.

Seems like its not just dirty water. Won't it contain trace elements of all good and the bad?

Youll be sorry if their water has some type of nasty strain of bacteria/dino or ich/velvet. Plus your prob right, there water might be filthy =)

 

[Duke4Life]

Not really in a hurry, just on a budget. Up until now, my mind has always been on how the fish look, but, any more, the water that will tell the true story.

Totally understand where you are coming from being on a tight budget myself, but good water is something not to skimp on. How a fish looks and acts plays a bigger role for me than the water they're coming from.

 

[McMullen]

I like the idea of LFS 's posting on their nice display tanks! As mentioned it's not feasible on livestock systems with constant turnover.

If you want to use tank water, find a local reefer. They're system will have the good stuff you want and less chance of bad.

I must disagree about bacteria. There is substantial bacterial in the water column, look it up on advanced aquarist! Great article!!

 

[RyanCSGO]

from someone who tried to "expedite" the process with the first tank. take their advice and follow it the right way.

my tank went nuts when i strayed away from the more proper ways of doing things.
i quickly learned that patience is the only thing that will help. and trust me, if your on a budget, patience will be your best friend.

i was over eager to get my first tank up and running and cut corners. lost fish, corals, live rock was disgusting. i basically spent two tanks worth of money for 1 tank.

 

[JonPhillips]

the reason that they are doing to water change is to replenish the trace elements. With a system with fish and corals in it the corals are going to deplete the trace elements. The hypothetical: what happen is the do not know it yet and they have an out break of velvet or another disease and do not know it yet, and now it is in your tank? Then you add live stock and then your are out of business for at least 72 day

Everything I have received free has always cost me some way on another

I stand corrected. @JPSika08 turned his used saltwater over to help jumpstart his hospital tank and if a guy who can build a tank like that can do it, then there must be something there.

 

[JonPhillips]

You'll find it's quite the opposite at most LFS.
They will do the bare minimum to keep overhead as low as possible, and the goal is not to keep live stock in the store long term but to move it as quickly as possible.

Shame.

 

[JonPhillips]

Youll be sorry if their water has some type of nasty strain of bacteria/dino or ich/velvet. Plus your prob right, there water might be filthy =)

Lookout!

 

[JonPhillips]

Totally understand where you are coming from being on a tight budget myself, but good water is something not to skimp on. How a fish looks and acts plays a bigger role for me than the water they're coming from.

Agreed.

 

[jsker]

I stand corrected. @JPSika08 turned his used saltwater over to help jumpstart his hospital tank and if a guy who can build a tank like that can do it, then there must be something there.

Keep us posted on the results, that is a nice thing about running your own slice of the ocean. You can experiment and let other know that it worked.

 

[JonPhillips]

the speediest cycle is not to have one

outlaw reefing. just like how all those reef tanks were setup at reefapalooza the day of....

use all purple live rock, xport it home underwater, cycle opt out.

if you want to control hitchikers, save money, and start your own substrate and guide it to purple then you have many options for bac sources, ways to feed them etc

And how might one start own substrate? purple live rock is prolly 9999999.99 a pound ill just refinance the house, she's down...

 

[JonPhillips]

That is an odd request. I get where you're coming from, but I guarantee hardly any people ask their LFS that. So I can see how it would throw them off guard. I can also see it as a liability too. Like mentioned before, LFS's get blamed for a lot of stuff that they have no control over, so keeping that to a min is in the best interest for the store. And I think a lot of LFS's do their water changes when the store is not open since they want their workers to be helping customers and not busy doing water changes. So you're making them change their schedule to do something for you for free. If you're that concerned about their water, once your tank is ready, test the water in a bag you get with a coral purchase. Oh and LFS's probably don't do as many WC's as a regular tank owner simply because as they bag up corals to sell and have to put water back in, it's like doing mini water changes every day. I'm sure there are LFS's who don't have very good water parameters, but you can usually tell by looking at the health of their livestock. And I don't think aged water is going to help your cycle much. Better off with good liverock. Have fun with the new tank!!!

True.

 

[JonPhillips]

You mention that it's "still free." No way, you'll pay one way or another. Plus regular instant ocean is fairly inexpensive. For sure it's a better deal than the headache you would be likely to get from used water. Just my .02. Good luck with whatever option you choose.

Thanks. They got me at $1.00 a gallon for reef ready water, but I suppose I will attempt to mix my own.

 

[JonPhillips]

I thought many LFS' ran their fish systems with low doses of copper? That would be one reason to not use their old dirty water. Coral systems should be okay. But yes, I'd consider it an odd question. Especially if they don't know you. If I were in their shoes, I wouldn't want the chance you come back complaining that their water did this or that to your system. Not worth it.

Was not aware of the copper issue.

 

[TaylorPilot]

The real problem is that most LFS don't do water changes. And it isn't because they are lousy at doing maintenance. It is because every fish they bag up takes half a gallon of water out the system. If you sold 10 fish you just removed 5 gallons of salt water that has to be replenished with new saltwater. I have seen some larger stores go through two buckets of salt in a few days just replenishing the water in the systems they put in the bags when they sale live stock. So it isn't that they are afraid you are going to check their parameters, it is that there isn't any old water to give you.

 

[JonPhillips]

The only thing worth testing for when you purchase livestock online is salinity. That water is going to have ammonia in it even on overnight shipments, fish breath, poop, and pee (so do inverts and corals), so you will think that, that water is bad right off the bat. I agree with all of the comments before. It's not worth it, and IMO pointless to use water from a water change for anything other than a QT tank. It is not going to do anything for cycling your tank. In the case of using it in a QT tank you still need to put some sort of sponge in an established system to "culture" bacteria on in order to place that in the QT to deal with animal waste. And @jsker just made a great point, you don't want any pathogens entering your system ever, that's why sooooo many people quarantine new livestock. Why would you add the very water your trying to avoid into a new system. Seems like you would be inviting tragedy and head aches to me. Just my 2C

Understood.

 

[JonPhillips]

I could also see this as a liability. LFS get blamed all the time for other people's mistakes. If they let people have their left over water and if anything goes wrong the LFS will likely take the blame. Not defending anyone here just stating how i would take it if i were a business owner. Plus why would you take the risk of using someone else's water? I do everything I can to keep other tanks water out of mine.

Yup.

 

[JonPhillips]

The real problem is that most LFS don't do water changes. And it isn't because they are lousy at doing maintenance. It is because every fish they bag up takes half a gallon of water out the system. If you sold 10 fish you just removed 5 gallons of salt water that has to be replenished with new saltwater. I have seen some larger stores go through two buckets of salt in a few days just replenishing the water in the systems they put in the bags when they sale live stock. So it isn't that they are afraid you are going to check their parameters, it is that there isn't any old water to give you.

ahhhhhhhh

 

[JonPhillips]

yup. plenty of pics to follow of me falling flat on my face.

 

[Scottsquatch]

Make it stop!! LOL

 

[Scottsquatch]

yup. plenty of pics to follow of me falling flat on my face.

I'm sure nobody wants that at all. As a community, we just want to see everybody succeed. I think all the concern comes in that it is a bit of an unorthodox method. Be sure to log your results, I would be very interested to see how things turn out. Good luck!