Lighting yet again!

[DoriShults]

I am tourchering myself trying to figure what to do with lighting. Our tank is 72 long x 30 deep x 18 wide
We have an older Current lighting fixtures over it and they have gone bad. Now I'm looking at fixture set up and am totally confused. I can't spend a fortune yet hubby wants the wifi type set up. It's deep and we want to have corals and clams not hard coral. Obviously we are new! We have a frogspon and a brain and a few fish. I was thinking LED, then T5, then both. lol I love the current 'playfulness" and was thinking about their new loop 72 in double pro system but have been doing some reading and don't think it's enough light for a deeper aquarium? I also looked at several 300 watt leds but am thinking I may need 3 or 4 for the length or would it be better to get 4 165's? More affordable for sure. I also looked at the ATI combo's, holy cow $$$$$$ I would so appreciate some suggestions. I am at a loss and need something quickly. I'm about ready to throw in the towel and stick a lamp over there

 

[mcarroll]

The current USA orbit IC pro should be fine. You can always add a third strip or even second pair if not. What do you think @Sarah24!?

Be advised that requiring light sufficient for a clam puts you at the high-end of the lighting requirements spectrum, so that means stony corals and everything else can also be on the table as an option for you if you want.

 

[Sarah24!]

Hello,

@DoriShults I would call current usa and more than likely they will replace your lights with their newest ones or
Fix them for free. I have the marine orbit pros the ones right before the ic pros. Three was simply extreme over kill, on my 240 which is 34 inches tall.

If you ran three ic pros on your tank you should have plenty of light to do whatever you want. I still wouldn’t place high powered sps or clams at the very bottom, but you will have the par to grow what you need to. I highly suggest you call current and speak with Brandon, tell him your situation and he may just send you the new currents aka ic pros in exchange. Their warranty and service is the best I have ever dealt with.

 

[DoriShults]

Thanks everyone! I think we will call them today and see what they suggest. We are going with the pros and continue with our soft corals and see how we do! We lost a leather for some reason, it just came apart! But the others are doing fine. We have ALOT to learn about lighting colors! I really appreciate the input!!

 

[mcarroll]

We lost a leather for some reason, it just came apart!

If nitrates or phosphates are zero or close then that could be the reason.

 

[Ron Reefman]

DoriShults, I'm going to seriously disagree with mcarroll about the Current Orbit fixtures being OK for your tank. They use 0.5 watt leds and they barely penetrate 24" deep. Their own PAR graph says they get a PAR of 50 at 24". Your tank is 30" deep. There is no way I would recommend that fixture for a 30" deep tank except as a fish only tank.

If you want some/most of the same features that the Current fixture offers and at a reasonable price, look at the Reef Breeders Photon V2+. Two of the 32" fixtures will cover your tank and offer you more PAR at 30" deep than you need for clams or stony corals. They use 3 watt and 5 watt leds from Cree, Osram & Semi-LED run on 6 channels with sunrise/sunset control as well. They also have a sponsor forum here at R2R so you can easily talk to other RB Photon users or to Logan, the owner of the company.

 

[DoriShults]

I do have a couple of more questions We seem to evaporate about 5 gal a week is that normal? We also seem to have a algae problem atleast 1 time a month too. We have about 4 fish and 4 corals several different crabs and a shrimp. I don't really want add much more till we get algae more under control. Our testing shows the water is always in great condition. Should we use a sterilizer? I have a used one sitting around here somewhere. We have been very careful on our feeding and have gone that route all ready! lol

 

[DoriShults]

DoriShults, I'm going to seriously disagree with mcarroll about the Current Orbit fixtures being OK for your tank. They use 0.5 watt leds and they barely penetrate 24" deep. Their own PAR graph says they get a PAR of 50 at 24". Your tank is 30" deep. There is no way I would recommend that fixture for a 30" deep tank except as a fish only tank.

If you want some/most of the same features that the Current fixture offers and at a reasonable price, look at the Reef Breeders Photon V2+. Two of the 32" fixtures will cover your tank and offer you more PAR at 30" deep than you need for clams or stony corals. They use 3 watt and 5 watt leds from Cree, Osram & Semi-LED run on 6 channels with sunrise/sunset control as well. They also have a sponsor forum here at R2R so you can easily talk to other RB Photon users or to Logan, the owner of the company.

Thanks! I will go and check them out, I always like more than one option and am so in experienced I need them!

 

[jda]

You have a pretty wide gap there. Clams are very high light - especially one that will not live on the sand bed and can be closer to the lights. The softies and LPS that you want are not all that demanding at all.

If you are looking at LEDs, pay careful attention... some model numbers have a "w" in them to purposely trick you. The manufactures are a bunch of liars - 300w is the model number, not 300 watts. Sometimes they tell you that it is a 300 watt equivalent, but this is pure bunk as well. They can work just fine, but just dig in and make sure that you are getting what you want and digging down to the details. If you are going black box, then features are really the only difference... most of the diodes are very similar as long as you do not just get a blue & white unit.

Sterlizer will not help anything - algae can grow just fine with one.

 

[Ron Reefman]

jda is right about the 165w and 300w model numbers. The fixtures have 55 and 100 3w leds so they are in fact 165 and 300w potential, but they run drivers that only push the 3w leds to 2.2w (Mars Aqua at 1.85w). So a 165w is really running at 121 watts and a 300w is really running at 220 watts. But that's still WAY more than an equivalent Current Orbit fixture with 0.5 watt leds!

And 5 gallons a week isn't uncommon. Especially if the heat or A/C is running so the house air is dry and it evaporates faster. Or if you have a ceiling fan blowing near the tank. I evaporate 3-4 gallons a week from a 40g tank! But I'm in SW Florida, my A/C runs a lot and I have a ceiling fan almost directly over the front edge of the tank.

 

[mcarroll]

I'm going to seriously disagree with mcarroll about the Current Orbit fixtures being OK for your tank. They use 0.5 watt leds and they barely penetrate 24" deep. Their own PAR graph says they get a PAR of 50 at 24". Your tank is 30" deep. There is no way I would recommend that fixture for a 30" deep tank except as a fish only tank.

I wouldn't consider it all that serious. ;Happy

I wasn't so severe in my recommendation, after all. Without going back and quoting myself, I also said that adding a third bar or even second pair would be nice. I even "Liked" @Sarah24!'s comment about contacting Current to get their opinionasdqwertyfghvbn.

It's totally fine that you'd recommend something different too – that doesn't even constitute actual disagreement.

Yours (a set of @Reef Breeders Photon 32-V2's) is a fine recommendation – I agree!!!

However since you mentioned it, I "lack agreement" with your characterization of .5 watt LED's. (Are you sure they actually use .5 watt? Off the the cuff math with their published info doesn't seem to fit with that.)

Also your conclusion seems to focus on that one detail and ignores the important factors in how the LED's are used. It would be...remarkable...to see someone make a similar recommendation against T5's – cuz one T5 bulb can only penetrate so deep.

To paraphrase the great Peg and Cat...that problem has been solved.

 

[Ron Reefman]

Not trying to be argumentative, it just writes up that way in a post!

You are right, I don't even know what wattage leds they use, I only know that if you divide the total wattage of the fixture by the number of leds (whether it's 50 or 250) and you get somewhere around 0.25 watts per led.

As for how well it penetrates water, their own chart used to show (they have since dropped it) that the PAR at the bottom 5" of a 24" deep tank was between 5 and 20. That's not nearly enough. BTW, I have a PAR meter and I've done PAR tests for several local club members who have had similar low PAR readings.

The Current Orbit line of fixtures are really nice if they are used over a 12" deep tank, and there are a lot of those out there. So it can work just fine. But I wouldn't recommend it over the OP's 30" deep tank even if you add more fixtures.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I have 80" tank and use twin Reefbrites HO, and three radions and Two Kessils AP700 as my tank also wide.

I have IC Loop on my larger cube and cant get the color variations they advertise so basically blue and white supplemented with reefbrite

 

[Sarah24!]

Hello,

@Ron Reefman i would totally disagree with your accessmsnt on the orbit marine pros. My tank is 34 inches tall and is a 240. I am only running two of the orbit marine pros and I am close to 200 par on the sand bed with a lab quality par meter from the research lab I still work with.

The current orbit marine pros are actually close to If not more consistent par as the gen 4 radions. I know this because I have tested both of them in equal tanks. I have also had extremely good success with growing clams, very high demanding sps as well. I actually added a third light bar to my tank and it was extreme over kill. I actually removed it because it was simple tooo much light. M

In my undergrad degree of marine biology 90% of coral of any kind needs about 200 par and equal light. Blasting coral with fine pinned lasers with a par of 900 or more doesn’t work very well in real life aspects. If you study any aquariums (major ones they use current orbit marine pros and or the Chinese black boxes). I have yet to stumble onto and aquarium where they use radions or super high powered lights. I have seen aquariums stay with mh on tanks larger than 500 gallons because of depth issues.

But if he runs two or three of the current lights he can grow anything in that tank. Just to provide proof here are pics of my tank and it’s only 8 months old.

The original op (the best advice I can say is) do not make changes to your tank specially lights if your corals are already use to them. You will cause more damage, and yes I did it myself and used extremely low acclimation and my tank hated it. Corals are like normal animals cats dogs etc. if you have a house dog who is always inside, then suddenly leave him outside, what happens to the poor dog? Same goes with any critter change their habitat or living conditions and expect them to respond negatively (in most cases). Even animals that come from extremely bad environments to amazing ones take time to adapt and adjust. Your corals are no different.

The second advice is there are soooo many opinions and they all just want to help you. What you have to do is choose what works best for you and your goals and budget. Not everyone can just drop 3,000 on lights or this or that. Also look at your lights what looks beautifully to you? Another person who has had tremendous luck with your lights is @120reefkeeper his tank is simply stunning and gorgeous and he uses the same lights you do. (Mine currents are a step above yours). Please feel free to ask me anything in regards to these lights I am always here to help anyone in need.

Also the other lights mentioned are not terrible FYI. But your currents will run side by side with them with no probelm at all. I have not found many lights that I have had better luck with than currents. Plus their service and warranty is by far number one. The only light I have had recent access to is the new Mitras ghl 7200. I will say those are probably thee number one led light out right now.

Here are some pics of my tank using onkt current orbit marine pros and it’s 8 months old. When I spoke to Brandon who is the lead tech all of their leds are 2w to 3 watt leds. If I can find the email between us I can post it.

 

[hwntunda]

I recommend 2 reefbreeders 32 v2s, great lights and very bright with great par output!

 

[Ron Reefman]

Hello,

@Ron Reefman i would totally disagree with your accessmsnt on the orbit marine pros. My tank is 34 inches tall and is a 240. I am only running two of the orbit marine pros and I am close to 200 par on the sand bed with a lab quality par meter from the research lab I still work with.

The current orbit marine pros are actually close to If not more consistent par as the gen 4 radions. I know this because I have tested both of them in equal tanks. I have also had extremely good success with growing clams, very high demanding sps as well. I actually added a third light bar to my tank and it was extreme over kill. I actually removed it because it was simple tooo much light. M

In my undergrad degree of marine biology 90% of coral of any kind needs about 200 par and equal light. Blasting coral with fine pinned lasers with a par of 900 or more doesn’t work very well in real life aspects. If you study any aquariums (major ones they use current orbit marine pros and or the Chinese black boxes). I have yet to stumble onto and aquarium where they use radions or super high powered lights. I have seen aquariums stay with mh on tanks larger than 500 gallons because of depth issues.

But if he runs two or three of the current lights he can grow anything in that tank. Just to provide proof here are pics of my tank and it’s only 8 months old.

The original op (the best advice I can say is) do not make changes to your tank specially lights if your corals are already use to them. You will cause more damage, and yes I did it myself and used extremely low acclimation and my tank hated it. Corals are like normal animals cats dogs etc. if you have a house dog who is always inside, then suddenly leave him outside, what happens to the poor dog? Same goes with any critter change their habitat or living conditions and expect them to respond negatively (in most cases). Even animals that come from extremely bad environments to amazing ones take time to adapt and adjust. Your corals are no different.

The second advice is there are soooo many opinions and they all just want to help you. What you have to do is choose what works best for you and your goals and budget. Not everyone can just drop 3,000 on lights or this or that. Also look at your lights what looks beautifully to you? Another person who has had tremendous luck with your lights is @120reefkeeper his tank is simply stunning and gorgeous and he uses the same lights you do. (Mine currents are a step above yours). Please feel free to ask me anything in regards to these lights I am always here to help anyone in need.

Also the other lights mentioned are not terrible FYI. But your currents will run side by side with them with no probelm at all. I have not found many lights that I have had better luck with than currents. Plus their service and warranty is by far number one. The only light I have had recent access to is the new Mitras ghl 7200. I will say those are probably thee number one led light out right now.

Sarah24, I don't know how to reply. I agree with almost everything you wrote. But you are the very first person I have ever heard from, or met, that has close to 200 PAR at anything more than 6" deep in a tank. I can't explain your results. I have personally done PAR tests on several Current Orbit fixtures and they all perform pretty much in line with what Current Orbit had in their ads and on their web page (it has since been removed).

Orbit_Marine_Light_Specifications by Ron Lindensmith, on Flickr

As you can see, even Current Orbit only claimed PAR levels of around 200 at the surface or in the first several inches of water. Even just at 24 inches they claim 5 to 20 PAR. And as you stated, and I agree, you need about 200 (maybe only 100 PAR) to keep and grow soft corals. So how do you get a PAR of close to 200 at 30+ inches? I can't explain it.

 

[Dana Riddle]

Lots of differing opinions here and I respect the fact that it remains civil (unlike some of the lighting debates on CompuServe's FishNet back in the 90s!)
When reviewing PAR measurements made by others, it's a good idea to ask about brand and model of meter. Spectral response, immersion effect, sensor orientation (cosine-corrected or no) can make a substantial difference. With that said:
I agree - clams are Tridacna light hogs and can tolerate (I'll go so far to say 'require') lots of light.
If I were just getting into the hobby, I would buy inexpensive lights and invest the savings in livestock. Chinese black boxes (with built-in timers and two channel programming) will provide enough light in most cases. Get your green thumb (or zooxanthellae brown thumb) with these and upgrade later if you so desire.

 

[Ron Reefman]

Dana, I completely agree about the black box fixtures with manual dimmers on just 2 channels are more than good enough to grow coral (even if you have to add external timers from HD or Lowes!). And they offer the ability to get the shade of warm to cool white and/or crazy blue light you might want in your tank.

I happen to like having a fixture that has 6 channels and sunrise/sunset capability. But I also fully recognize that it's all about my desire to play with and watch the changes and not at all about being remotely necessary for the fish or corals. I used inexpensive black box fixtures for many years.

 

[Dana Riddle]

Dana, I completely agree about the black box fixtures with manual dimmers on just 2 channels are more than good enough to grow coral (even if you have to add external timers from HD or Lowes!). And they offer the ability to get the shade of warm to cool white and/or crazy blue light you might want in your tank.

I happen to like having a fixture that has 6 channels and sunrise/sunset capability. But I also fully recognize that it's all about my desire to play with and watch the changes and not at all about being remotely necessary for the fish or corals. I used inexpensive black box fixtures for many years.

I'm old school (guess it's because I'm old and have been in the hobby for a while ) so it was my early experience with growing corals under on/off metal halide lamps. Today's light offer lots of options (some of them pretty cool) and fit the bill for many hobbyists. Thanks for your comments!

 

[WVNed]

I was under the impression the Orbit Marine Pro has been discontinued in favor of the new IC version.
For a 72" light
The new version has 126 watts of LEDs with 90 degree lenses
the old version has 176 watts with 60 degree lenses.