Lighting yet again!

No LED manufacturers send anything out to get tested that I know of - most of them guess and/or use internal testing. There are some that say that their lights have been "lab tested," but it is their own lab. This is not a huge concern since a good PPFD/PAR meter with a cosine corrected sensor is as easier to use then a voltmeter and are readily available to enough people to get an idea of what each light truly is. BRS will even test some of the more common ones - they will even tell you what they use to test with.

So we are down to paper-math, still-unknown testing equipment and methodology and perhaps a few freaky lights that have freaky output that nobody else has been able to duplicate?
 
@jda lol I’m sorry but I’m kinda laughing atm, did you even read my post before your wrote your last one? I said we used a li cor li-1500 which is Basicslly one of thee best in the industry and it was used as a base starter, in which we used higher lab equipment to test it further which is not for sale to individuals. Plus if you don’t know the paper math lol how are you going to position the lights and or on higher machines in labs if you don’t know the paper math are you gonna guess what sin and cosine correction are? Plus you have to figure in the critical angel of the lights and cancelation of the critical angel, that’s done with paper math or if you have like an hp48gx calculator with the specific cards in the slots maybe. I don’t know many calculators that will figure out corrected cosine and or critical angel. You have to work through it.

In addition what’s funny is I’m certain mr @Dana Riddle has tested most of these par meters. Not sure if he has the one you have or the one we used. But regardless he has done papers probably and if so he will tell you even it comes down to the tester, the way it’s tested, the csliberation, temp, environment everything Matters. So again, doing your own experiment if you so choose to may give you some answers. Mine was done as a beta test before the lights were even for sale. Heck I was a senior in my undergrad program that was 2013 and you want me to remember all of it lol. I’m off to have some fruity pebbles and toast.
 
No LED manufacturers send anything out to get tested that I know of - most of them guess and/or use internal testing. There are some that say that their lights have been "lab tested," but it is their own lab. This is not a huge concern since a good PPFD/PAR meter with a cosine corrected sensor is as easier to use then a voltmeter and are readily available to enough people to get an idea of what each light truly is. BRS will even test some of the more common ones - they will even tell you what they use to test with.

So we are down to paper-math, still-unknown testing equipment and methodology and perhaps a few freaky lights that have freaky output that nobody else has been able to duplicate?
Orphek and the old BuildMyLED (now Fluence Bioengineering) used independent testing for at least some of their luminaires (I did some of them) but more importantly, they changed (improved) their designs based on these results. There may be other companies with similar experiences, I'm just not personally involved with them.
 
Orphek and the old BuildMyLED (now Fluence Bioengineering) used independent testing for at least some of their luminaires (I did some of them) but more importantly, they changed (improved) their designs based on these results. There may be other companies with similar experiences, I'm just not personally involved with them.

Interesting!
 
Hello,

It would be interesting to see if led manufacturers will include reflectors to help with shadow effect with puck version leds. This is one of the reasons I found the strip lights like the current marine orbit pros better in one aspect. Do to this one can find the critical angel and possibly eliminate shadow effect and or run lots of them in a t5 setup.

On my experience though running more than two strips proved a few things. It did decrease shadow effect (even though I found the sin and cosine angle with two at 60 degrees. Even doing the paper math which does work, it proves to be just way way too much light.

Naturally most corals do not get blasted for 12 hours since the earth rotates and the light starts at a low and works to a high then a low, which means there is a natural shadow effect, not to mention clouds and storms etc.

I think there needs to be a lot more research on marine lights of all kinds. There is a new research that I was introduced to by Mr. @Dana Riddle “the effects of infrared on zoox photosynthesis. Reports out of Germany suggest there is an Emerson Enhancement-like effect. I understand 840nm LEDs can be used to relax PSI”.

This is new info that has intrigued my interest even though I’m way way way behind him on this new info it’s interesting to read some of the info that I have found.

Another experiment that I would like to do maybe on a frag tank (not soo much my main tank) is the effect of changing lights and their effects on how coral respond to it. An example would be going from a kessill to Radion or current or heck fluval. Just from my own small experiment adding a third light of the same light had drastic negative effects. Even realizing that I’m adding 33% more light, and turning all three lights down to compensate for that, the corals in a mixed reef didn’t respond well. Most of my lower light ultra acans, traks, wells, etc responded negatively. In addition the sps coral grew faster, and some started to change in color.
Granted it was only on for three weeks to a month and sps take longer to show change. It was not worth the risk losing other corals do to the change.

Even running both lights at only 45% brights and 100 blue and uv, I ran three at 31% brights and 100% blues and it was still substantially brighter. The corals responded within two days and lots of my lps would not open fully. Even using a cloudy sunshine mode for a week to change intensity randomly showed no signs of change.

Only removing the third light did the corals respond positively , and was within about a three day time frame. The acans finally opened back up: and smaller acans (I stopped losing smaller acan colonies).

In light of all this, it simply enhances my point where corals that are placed into a tank and are use to a certain light respond differently to changing lights. Even when I moved my corals from my old 125 to my lfs to hold while I moved showed the same results. I placed them in a larger display tank that has been set up for years and years. It simply ran straight t5 lights and the tank looks amazing. However (they had my corals close to six months (that’s another story) but most of my corals did not grow at all in that time frame and the ones that did make it, didn’t look very good at all when I transferred them back. Yet the corals that had been in there for years were growing great and had amazing color etc.

After my new tank cycled, and placing my corals back in the tank, they responded very well within about a week. So there seems to be a correlation in light change. Another interesting aspect of this is, How people purchase frags online in completely different systems and lights. Some of them do well and some not so much. It would be interesting to see If there is a correlation between corals and higher animals responding to their environment and the effects it has on them do to this change. Simple small changes seem to have a major effect not just with corals, but animals and humans as well.
 
Hello,

@mcarroll thank you I will definitely read up on all of them. Mr @Dana Riddle has given me other info that has sparked my interest, that I’m definitely reading and looking into as well.
 
Hello,

It would be interesting to see if led manufacturers will include reflectors to help with shadow effect with puck version leds. This is one of the reasons I found the strip lights like the current marine orbit pros better in one aspect. Do to this one can find the critical angel and possibly eliminate shadow effect and or run lots of them in a t5 setup.

On my experience though running more than two strips proved a few things. It did decrease shadow effect (even though I found the sin and cosine angle with two at 60 degrees. Even doing the paper math which does work, it proves to be just way way too much light.

Naturally most corals do not get blasted for 12 hours since the earth rotates and the light starts at a low and works to a high then a low, which means there is a natural shadow effect, not to mention clouds and storms etc.

I think there needs to be a lot more research on marine lights of all kinds. There is a new research that I was introduced to by Mr. @Dana Riddle “the effects of infrared on zoox photosynthesis. Reports out of Germany suggest there is an Emerson Enhancement-like effect. I understand 840nm LEDs can be used to relax PSI”.

This is new info that has intrigued my interest even though I’m way way way behind him on this new info it’s interesting to read some of the info that I have found.

Another experiment that I would like to do maybe on a frag tank (not soo much my main tank) is the effect of changing lights and their effects on how coral respond to it. An example would be going from a kessill to Radion or current or heck fluval. Just from my own small experiment adding a third light of the same light had drastic negative effects. Even realizing that I’m adding 33% more light, and turning all three lights down to compensate for that, the corals in a mixed reef didn’t respond well. Most of my lower light ultra acans, traks, wells, etc responded negatively. In addition the sps coral grew faster, and some started to change in color.
Granted it was only on for three weeks to a month and sps take longer to show change. It was not worth the risk losing other corals do to the change.

Even running both lights at only 45% brights and 100 blue and uv, I ran three at 31% brights and 100% blues and it was still substantially brighter. The corals responded within two days and lots of my lps would not open fully. Even using a cloudy sunshine mode for a week to change intensity randomly showed no signs of change.

Only removing the third light did the corals respond positively , and was within about a three day time frame. The acans finally opened back up: and smaller acans (I stopped losing smaller acan colonies).

In light of all this, it simply enhances my point where corals that are placed into a tank and are use to a certain light respond differently to changing lights. Even when I moved my corals from my old 125 to my lfs to hold while I moved showed the same results. I placed them in a larger display tank that has been set up for years and years. It simply ran straight t5 lights and the tank looks amazing. However (they had my corals close to six months (that’s another story) but most of my corals did not grow at all in that time frame and the ones that did make it, didn’t look very good at all when I transferred them back. Yet the corals that had been in there for years were growing great and had amazing color etc.

After my new tank cycled, and placing my corals back in the tank, they responded very well within about a week. So there seems to be a correlation in light change. Another interesting aspect of this is, How people purchase frags online in completely different systems and lights. Some of them do well and some not so much. It would be interesting to see If there is a correlation between corals and higher animals responding to their environment and the effects it has on them do to this change. Simple small changes seem to have a major effect not just with corals, but animals and humans as well.
I've got to get the infrared experiments completed. Will present that info at the October Pets Festival in Milan. MACNA first though. I wonder why I stay stressed out.
 
I've got to get the infrared experiments completed. Will present that info at the October Pets Festival in Milan. MACNA first though. I wonder why I stay stressed out.

Hello,

People stress out over the same reasons corals stress out lol something is out of whack. Realizing you have to write a professional research paper and have a proper hypothesis that’s based on scientific facts, then it has to be read by others who possibly have never even heard of said theory. Yet they seem to know more and issue opinions with out possibly doing any research at all. Probably a good reason to be stressed out, but in 2013 your paper on par meters between the li-core 1500 and the apogee was then the status que. So I’m certain that within a five year time frame you have raised the bar in scientific research when it comes to marine leds and how they affect marine species and sub species.
 

IF YOU HAD TO TAKE A REEFING EXAM, WOULD YOU PASS?

  • Yes!

    Votes: 32 45.7%
  • Not yet, but I have one that I want to buy in mind!

    Votes: 9 12.9%
  • No.

    Votes: 26 37.1%
  • Other (please explain).

    Votes: 3 4.3%

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