Micro and nano bubble tank treatment

Cruz_Arias · May 11, 2016

This is a good demonstration of bubbles and explanation.

McMullen · May 11, 2016

@Cruz_Arias, which companies are selling products? I was referring to the KZ flat worm exit and their thought behind why the product works. Comparing exfoliation to human skin and coral sliming are not apples to apples. Please do not bring up the negative arguments of others here. As I stated, there are numerous bubblers reporting no ill or negative affects. Todays reef tanks setup with "normal," methods are not deprived of oxygen so please do not bring in this justification either.

You are jumping to conclusions and using incorrect human physiology and chemistry to justify bubbling and sliming in corals. I understand the analogy, but it is simply not the same. My posts are not an attack on bubbling! Rather, if we are going to make conclusions they have to make since using coral biochemistry and physiology, extrapolating human data is flawed!

Yes, coral mucous is used as a food source to many organisms. Coral shed the mucous naturally based on biochemical signals. Bubbling in our home reefs forces corals to shed seemingly all of their slime coat in a short period of time. So, the question is, though this does not seem to be harmful, is it helpful? Nothing is black and white so stating mucous is a food source and should be REMOVED is a simplistic view point.

My limited and short trial of bubbling…….using incorrect bubblers……caused my corals to slough off what looked liked all of their mucous layers. My skimmer cup collection increased significantly from the slime, therefore their was little food benefit to the micro organisms. Perhaps if someone is interested in using coral slime as food the skimmer should be shut off during the hours of bubbling?

Cruz_Arias · May 11, 2016

McMullen, I'm not mad at you. LOL you're reading it wrong. I'm trying to explain and give examples... corollaries, speculations, hypotheses...

Notice the smilies.

You stated that it "looked like" and "increased significantly" and those are observations that we have claimed as well...

I personally run my skimmer 6 hours a day 1/4 the time most people run their skimmer. Some days I don't even have it on... but the aeration happens nightly for 2 to 3 hours a day based on nutrient levels and bioload (co2 ladening)

It's very similar in application to dosing where, if Alk is maintained stable at 9.6dKH, I would utilize aeration to maintain a pH of 8.3 to 8.4...

The removal of the old particulate ladened (dirty) mucus, seems to help my sps out as well as some of our softies and increased "healthy" swelling in many cynaria, bubbles, frogspawn and torches.

Once again, McMullen, observation and scientifically grounded deductions and yes, a few points of speculation based on experience.

ShawnSaucier · May 12, 2016

So I purchased and air pump and fine bubble stone, it's not a wood block as I'll have to purchase one off the old inter web. But I did want to test how my return/sump reacted with the stone running. While it was running I found that my water level in sump rose and caused my alarms to ring within 10 minutes. So I moved the stone to a spot in the DT, under a Tunze 6105 and this seemed to work well, but I'm not sure if I'm injecting to many bubble and if they are the right size. I ran for about 3 hrs last night at the end of my light cycle/dusk. A couple SPS slimed like crazy and I will say that I noticed a definite clearness to the water. I'll try to get video or atleast a picture later to show the bubbles for your opinion. Just testing things right now before I try to make a permanent set up. One question, can an air pump be 20'/30' away and still work or is it a lot like pushing water? I would like to move the pump outside if this is going to be part of the system, but I'm not near a window, just a sliding glass door to a patio..

Cruz_Arias · May 12, 2016

ShawnSaucier said:
So I purchased and air pump and fine bubble stone, it's not a wood block as I'll have to purchase one off the old inter web. But I did want to test how my return/sump reacted with the stone running. While it was running I found that my water level in sump rose and caused my alarms to ring within 10 minutes. So I moved the stone to a spot in the DT, under a Tunze 6105 and this seemed to work well, but I'm not sure if I'm injecting to many bubble and if they are the right size. I ran for about 3 hrs last night at the end of my light cycle/dusk. A couple SPS slimed like crazy and I will say that I noticed a definite clearness to the water. I'll try to get video or atleast a picture later to show the bubbles for your opinion. Just testing things right now before I try to make a permanent set up. One question, can an air pump be 20'/30' away and still work or is it a lot like pushing water? I would like to move the pump outside if this is going to be part of the system, but I'm not near a window, just a sliding glass door to a patio..

Hello, Shawn!

How did you initially set up the airstone to return pump configuration?

We place the wooden air diffuser here:

And have no air entrainment or flow issues with the return pump.

Cruz_Arias · May 12, 2016

This is a simplified flow diagram for the process and what happens...

ShawnSaucier · May 12, 2016

My sump is set up a bit different, I don't have the bubble trap area. The spot where my return is located is 25"Lx10"Wx 16"D so it is a fairly large area. This was designed to hold media reactors, and also has given plenty of surface area for bubbles to rise before they reached my return. The problem I faced with the air stone was that the water current wasn't fast enough to carry the bubble to the RT pump without the stone being directly in front of the intake. This bothers me as I would worry about ruining the pump and also it caused the water level to switch in the sump. That's when I switch the stone to the main display, where is well hidden and below the Tunze pump. But again, I'm not sure the bubbles are small enough or if I'm sending enough in the water

ShawnSaucier · May 12, 2016

This is the effect I am getting

Cruz_Arias · May 12, 2016

ShawnSaucier said:
My sump is set up a bit different, I don't have the bubble trap area. The spot where my return is located is 25"Lx10"Wx 16"D so it is a fairly large area. This was designed to hold media reactors, and also has given plenty of surface area for bubbles to rise before they reached my return. The problem I faced with the air stone was that the water current wasn't fast enough to carry the bubble to the RT pump without the stone being directly in front of the intake. This bothers me as I would worry about ruining the pump and also it caused the water level to switch in the sump. That's when I switch the stone to the main display, where is well hidden and below the Tunze pump. But again, I'm not sure the bubbles are small enough or if I'm sending enough in the water

Ah Ok... I understand the issue...

I am sorry I do not have a definitive solution at the moment. But some of the Aussies may have a nice intank (DIY build) of what they've been using for this method...

@Squamosa would you be able to help?

ShawnSaucier · May 12, 2016

After about 1 minute of running. Not the "white cloud" of bubbles

Cruz_Arias · May 12, 2016

ShawnSaucier said:
This is the effect I am getting

Those bubbles are a bit large mate, but definitely better than not aerating.

ShawnSaucier · May 12, 2016

I will say it does give a reef fringe look when it's on( low tide?). The bubbles stay in the water column for about 3-5 minutes after the pump is shut off, but while it's running it reminds me of a giant alkiseltzer on the surface

Anthony123 · May 12, 2016

Would an air pump with 3-7 psi using a wooden air stone in the back of my 30g innovative marine AIO near the pump be ok? Thanks...I have been trying to catch up on reading all the posts.

ShawnSaucier · May 12, 2016

I just purchased a fine bubble stone at Petsmart as I'm still sorting how to impliment this into my system. Do the Lee's wood diffuser really make a much smaller bubble? Another thought I had was a type of Venturi style pump in my placed into my overflow, but feeding to the tank.

Cruz_Arias · May 12, 2016

ShawnSaucier said:
I just purchased a fine bubble stone at Petsmart as I'm still sorting how to impliment this into my system. Do the Lee's wood diffuser really make a much smaller bubble? Another thought I had was a type of Venturi style pump in my placed into my overflow, but feeding to the tank.

Yes... they really do... but you'd need an airline valve and a higher pressure luft pump ideally...

We have tried many of the venture style pumps in the past and even with needlewheels and the like. It has always seemed that the smallest bubbles was generated by what is seen in the flow diagram with the explanations of what's happening.

Cruz_Arias · May 12, 2016

Anthony123 said:
Would an air pump with 3-7 psi using a wooden air stone in the back of my 30g innovative marine AIO near the pump be ok? Thanks...I have been trying to catch up on reading all the posts.

Yes... I would suggest using an airline valve to control volume of air without losing the pressure, @Anthony123

Cruz_Arias · May 12, 2016

ShawnSaucier said:
I will say it does give a reef fringe look when it's on( low tide?). The bubbles stay in the water column for about 3-5 minutes after the pump is shut off, but while it's running it reminds me of a giant alkiseltzer on the surface

Yes... with the smaller sized bubbles you should not get surface popping in the DT, Shawn.

Anthony123 · May 12, 2016

Cruz_Arias said:
Yes... I would suggest using an airline valve to control volume of air without losing the pressure, @Anthony123

Thanks, is there any recommended pumps and stones that work best for a smaller tank?

Cruz_Arias · May 12, 2016

ShawnSaucier said:
I will say it does give a reef fringe look when it's on( low tide?). The bubbles stay in the water column for about 3-5 minutes after the pump is shut off, but while it's running it reminds me of a giant alkiseltzer on the surface

This is a pretty good example of how small the bubbles are, Shawn... If we come up with something that can be placed in the display tank or ran in the return chamber directly I'll definitely post it here.