Miracle mudd experience?

IME and use for 2 years I've not noticed any drastic difference and as directed I have replenished as suggested and though it has certainly not had any ill effects, it has not greatly improved conditions as the product description claims.

Research is part of my elected field with a steadfast conclusion that the only true benefit I've noticed is good growth on my red mangroves.

I try to stay on top of parameters accordingly so perhaps I'm not a good one to ask about the pros from MM but then again I don't have any fishes with ill health such as head and lateral line erosion which is MM claims to reverse. As well as a few other benefits described.

By all means, I welcome any input others may share on MM and hope you post about your findings. :)

Not saying there is no benefit, just my observations and only my

BTW Theresa Loveless that is one beautiful anemone.
 
Thx i was given the nems thinking they were just rose bubble tip nems they were kinda growing to fast splitting so i didn't know i was throwing away these nems because I was new to the hobby but then a friend said you have bw nems they are rare i was kinda taken back when he said they were worth a few bucks mine are heavy with the colors and there patterns are such a nice nem i have yet to see any better or should i say more unique i love em there so nice and vibrant i want to see how this product works out for them ?
 
I have used it in a nano system and did not really see any benefits; however, I have a friend that owns an excellent LFS (even QTs all fish prior to sale) and he swears by it. He tells me the biggest problem is that people do not use it as it is recommended by EcoSystems. Not using the proper amount at the proper depth (which can require a rather large portion of a sump), the high flow rates recommended through the sump and not changing out 50% per year. I only know that he uses it in all of his store tanks and all of his commercial accounts and I have only seen his store tanks, which are very nice. He has had the benefit of Leng Sy's (owner of EcoSystems) personal guidance helping him get his system set up properly.

Having said that, there are many ways to run a reef tank. I have seen nice tanks with Miracle Mud and nice ones without it. If you are going to use it, I would suggest that you at least look at the recommendations for its use on the EcoSystems web site. This is the Owner's Manual for setting up one of their sumps, which has a lot of information on Leng Sy's method.
 
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I was given some to experiment with (as well as some of the competitors mineral mud). I setup a couple of tanks following the user guidelines and left them to it. I can't really say I saw any benefit to coral health or colour and I'm a massive fan of natural methods over technology, so really wanted it to work. I run all my tanks with mostly algae bed filtration and have done for over a decade, so am pretty experienced.
It may well add nutrients and elements but you won't find mud on the reefs, instead it settles deeper out or in low flow areas, so I think it's just clever marketing of an unwanted substance. I'd save the money and do extra water changes with it as I think that's far more beneficial.
 
I have it in my sump but I can't say whether I have seen any improvement, but I will not remove it, and since I have limited sump space I've thought about using it in a reactor. anyone else ever try this?
 
I’m on my second round of live mangrove mud I got off eBay collected deep out of lagoons in S. Florida. It sits in trays in my sump and last time around it most definitely increased microfauna (tiny snails, inverts, pods etc) and logic tells me all sorts of varieties of bacterial colonies from the ocean. If I could I’d have trays of deep collected ocean mud from various reef locations around the world for bio diversity sake but I believe miracle mud is an overpriced version of essentially this same thing. I had it in a refugium last time, now I just have it there to offer what it can for trace elements, minerals and microfauna. When I see what my Skimmer pulls out every week I can’t imagine all that staying in the tank. No one wants to swim in a pool everyone’s peed in [emoji15]
 
Lol do have a link of what you use from e bay this is where i got the miracle mud if you can pass on the info that would be a great appreciation im very interested
 
Lol do have a link of what you use from e bay this is where i got the miracle mud if you can pass on the info that would be a great appreciation im very interested

I’m not sure I can post links here or not? If you just search “miracle mud” the seller is in St. Petersburg Florida. When I say miracle mud, I am referring to the ecosystems product. The stuff I get on eBay is just mud out of a lagoon in Florida, which is a little ridiculous but I don’t live near the ocean, otherwise I’d go dig some up myself haha.
 
Im on the Oregon coast do you think that would be ok ? To get mud from there ? If so what am i looking for ?I posted a picture of how much i paid for the 10 lb bag not a link if you could do that im not sure if we can but noone has said anything i paid 56.00 for a 10 pound bag but if i can just go dig up some im on it lol if its alright can you give me the seller's name on e bay ? I tried look couldn't find him ?
 
Im on the Oregon coast do you think that would be ok ? To get mud from there ? If so what am i looking for ?I posted a picture of how much i paid for the 10 lb bag not a link if you could do that im not sure if we can but noone has said anything i paid 56.00 for a 10 pound bag but if i can just go dig up some im on it lol if its alright can you give me the seller's name on e bay ? I tried look couldn't find him ?

You don’t just wanna go throwing mud from wherever in haha. Where it’s collected is relevant. I’ve had a lot of comm. with the eBay seller. It’s collected from a lagoon that’s rich in good nutrients, trace elements, etc where mangroves are thriving and from fairly deep.

I just looked on eBay and the seller is away, but the seller name is bamboo-dynasty.
 
It's a great product, once you understand what it is, how it works and, more importantly, what it is not. For the right application, it is a great product.

First off, what is it? It is NOT what it is claimed to be in marketing. It is a silica based sand, absent of any soluble calcium or alkalinity and far all anyone can tell is sand mixed with miracle grow, or flourish nutrient tabs.

I have been in this hobby for over 20 years and remember when this product was relatively new. Leng Sy is a pioneer in our hobby and knows what he is doing, but he grossly took the wrong approach on his marketing and shot himself in the foot. He set the bar in this hobby for a snake oil salesman. Which is too bad because it is a great product for the right application. If you ever get a chance to meet him or talk to him, he is extremely knowledgeable regarding the hobby, but I also found him arrogant and willing to double down on the false marketing.

So, to be clear, it is not a miracle and it is not ocean mud...

So what is it and what is it good for?

Basically, it is a finely graded refugium substrate. What it does it is creates an anoxic layer and the bottom of the sand for complete nitrification to occur within your sump. It is a remote DSB, but existing before the term DSB was trending and does so within only 1-inch depth. When people tell you how funked it is when they remove it, this is why. When you read the instructions and Leng says not to have more than half an inch of sand your DT (actually recommends none), it is so your DT substrate does not compete with his mud. What it does is sink nutrients in the substrate where they get fully processed. This is great!

With this product, you will maintain 0 nitrates with no matter what you do!...so long as you follow the instructions.

The most important instruction is you have to replace the product (half of it) every year. The reason is the substrate is only 1-inch thick and it fully fouls up after a year of typical use (see responses above mine for verification). This mud is nasty when used! If you do not replace the mud, it will reach full saturation and will no longer adsorb nutrients from your tank...in fact may be leaching them back in.

So where do I recommend this product? For large fish tanks, this is a great product as you will have virtually no nitrates. Also helpful for soft coral tanks and/or LPS if you maintain the tank on the dirty side.

Where I do NOT recommend this product is for SPS and/or ULNS. The problem you will run into this the substrate sinks all nitrates and you will not be able to fully utilize the pro-biotic approaches. Also, with the lack if nitrate, you will struggle to manage phosphates with carbon dosing...which is why Leng requires you to use GFO along with his substrate.

Regarding the skimmer, I run mine only part time. I get a full cup after running 6 hours. Right now, I am skimmer less and have been for about a month and will stay that way....until I can fix my gate valve :D I do not understand what the mud has anything to do with running your skimmer. You can skim with the mud...or go skimmerless w/o the mud...so it is a moot point. Make your decisions on mud and skimmer independent of each other.

Regarding nutrients in the mud...no idea. I grow chaeto and caluerpa, none of which depend on the substrate for nutrients. My guess, as mentioned above. I do agree with the suggestion that this would work great with mangroves...but I don't have any so I leave that to others.

So in summary, if you have a high nitrate problem, this product will solve it. If you have a coral coloration goal, this product will work against you. And remember, chicken always return to roost, so if you use this product to sink nutrients, you will have to remove it before it hits saturation...about a year.
 
Also I would like to know if you think the Oregon coast mud like when there's low tide I can go out and grab some Would this be beneficial or would it just make a mess?
 
Also I would like to know if you think the Oregon coast mud like when there's low tide I can go out and grab some Would this be beneficial or would it just make a mess?

In short, no. Do not add mud from the Oregon coast.

What are you trying to accomplish is this a newly set up tank or you haven’t even set it up yet?
 
Also I would like to know if you think the Oregon coast mud like when there's low tide I can go out and grab some Would this be beneficial or would it just make a mess?


If you had more experience, it would be more beneficial for your long term biofiltration. @Paul B uses mud from Long Island Sound. His tank was set up for 47 years before he moved last Christmas. I have a 30G EcoSystem mud/macro refugium set up for 25 years with a 75G Jaubert Plenum on top. I never changed miracle mud. It merely was a median for worms & bacteria to grow. Detritus built up in mud section 1/2” in 25/years.

A reef maintenance friend told me that the initial miracle mud was high in inert iron as demonstrated by using an intank magnet. I dose iron regularly. To that point, I have added fresh water substrate high in iron to all of my reef tanks.
 
I actually went back to the lab analysis and it says it is mainly quartz(63%), silicon, aluminum, iron, calcium.

http://www.reefs.org/library/article/mm_analysis.html

What is feeding nitrifying bacteria in this quartz sand that couldnt be done with any other substrate?

As far as marketing, amazing how Leng still claims these miracles being today things can be tested and researched instantly. This product came out at an age when people would write books on trials and not so much testing and science was available. People also thought Deep sand beds were the thing to do so substrates were the path to coral health at that time.

He claims the “mud” also stops and reverses lateral disease in fish...

The Fiji mud available is something to be tried and with potential benefits, as it is actually from reefs and full of good minerals that could help a reef in any way
 
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I tried MM years ago as a means to help boost fuge and pods on a long time running tank I had just added a HO fuge to.

Previously my tank was in what I call "auto pilot" mode, meaning I rarely ever had to clean glass or do much of anything.
I had film algae for the first time that week, and then had to scrub my glass every couple days of it.
I removed it, after a few WC's issues went away.
That was my exp, pretty much over it.

I don't know how they maintain regularity of mud formula or where it is collected or consistency of what it contains
 
Have used it on and off for years. Think it makes a dif. Especially when 6 months or newer. As far as trace elements.
After that it offers much more nitrate removal per sq inch, or depth wise. Would gues you’d need 6 inches of sand, as compared with 2 inches mud.
Don’t get the no skimmer needed thing. It depends on how crowded the tank is, and many other factors
Plus skimmer oxygenates the tank big time
 
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IF YOU HAD TO TAKE A REEFING EXAM, WOULD YOU PASS?

  • Yes!

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  • Not yet, but I have one that I want to buy in mind!

    Votes: 9 12.9%
  • No.

    Votes: 26 37.1%
  • Other (please explain).

    Votes: 3 4.3%

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