More education is needed in keeping corals..

[bubbasguppies]

I just noticed this news feed. It happened in the UK. Paly toxins are NO Joke.

Fish tank warning as family are hospitalised with unusual poisoning after cleaning coral

 

[Ranjib]

Ouch :-/ . Yes, palytoxins can be serious health risks. There were few cases in US also.

 

[ReeferBean]

I've noticed a lot of the stories about this are the same story just repeated year after year.

 

[Bleigh]

I've seen people talk about it a bit on some of the facebook groups I'm on. It doesn't seem to be common, but neither does it seem rare. And hospitals don't seem to know what the people are talking about when they go in. Might be worht keeping an info sheet to give to a hospital if anyone does keep paly's as a precaution.

 

[Cell]

What would be the proper way to clean that tank to mitigate the toxins?

 

[ZoWhat]

I had palytoxin poisoning last year.... no joke

what do you wanna know?... ask me questions

 

[Bleigh]

What would be the proper way to clean that tank to mitigate the toxins?

That's actually a good question. I don't know. I typically hear about people getting poisoned while they are out of the tank.

@skimjim how did you get it?

 

[ZoWhat]

@Bleigh here's what I documented last Nov 2018

----------------------

I've had pretty severe palytoxin poisoning before. Bc my 180g DT is 95% palys and zoas

Im a stupid stupid man, who scrubbed over 200-300 palys from LRs in the tank with a toothbrush with my bare arms in the tank. All bc i didnt want green palys anymore.

Got palytoxin absorbed thru my skin. Possibly thru small cut on my arms. Idk

My symptoms:
* rapid heartbeat (couldn't get my heartrate down below 90bpm for 3 days)
* throat and chest CLOSED up making it feel like breathing thru a straw (but I have a rescue inhaler that helped)
* extreme tiredness (just to walkup a flight of steps was exhausting)
* headache (entire head, not localized)

Symptoms lasted 4-5 days but symptoms got better each day. NEVER felt like I was gonna die, just severely sick

High medical deductible kept me from seeking medical attn. what the heck they gonna do? Give a bag of IV solution and send me home with a $1500 bill? No thanks... Again, felt sick but never like I was going to die.

During my toothbrush scrubbing episode NO ONE in my house was effect at all but myself....

I've since handled palys and been touched by the slimecoat but always immediately wash my hands and no further incident have ever happened since the stupid scrubbing incident

Palytoxin is like working a chainsaw. You must deeply respect both. But people totally flipping out bc they touched a paly colony is phobic to me. But to each his own

I frag palys all the time gloveless bc I need the dexterity to frag. I know to avoid the polyp squirting juice in my face. And to minimize touching the slimecoat

I touch palys all the time while fragging but use caution and always wash hands immediately afterwards.

Where palys get dangerous is when they are scrubbed or any activity where they slimeup with a release of defense toxins.

But palys in your tank, undisturbed are beautiful to watch grow and are safe to keep. I would say you're a 1,000,000 times more likely to die in a house fire than die keeping palys

 

[bubbasguppies]

Not every paly has this neurotoxin from what I have read online and through discussions from my former reef club in Colorado Springs, CO (SCMAS). If I had any doubts or questions I would ask Doyle and Joe. I have had a plethora of various types of Zoa's and paly's...not once did I use PPE like I should have but I took care in fragging every single piece. Before and after handling I would always scrub down with green soap that I used tattooing. Be careful everyone....

 

[Paullawr]

Yeah i posted this earlier. TBH its not about information on corals. The problem is people jump in two feet first and dont research their new hobby.

So many questions on that report.

Why did their fish die whilst on holiday?
A correctly maintained tank with someone checking up and feeding should be fine for couple of weeks.

How do you not know corals are living creatures.....?

Why is it the responsibility of the lfs that the coral is toxic?
What about dinos, they are and may well not be introduced with toxic paly.

I read it as more of a finger pointing excercise at their lack of diligence.

Yes im glad they are fine but clearly the issue is we have made the hobby too accessible.

 

[Bleigh]

Not every paly has this neurotoxin from what I have read online and through discussions from my former reef club in Colorado Springs, CO (SCMAS). If I had any doubts or questions I would ask Doyle and Joe. I have had a plethora of various types of Zoa's and paly's...not once did I use PPE like I should have but I took care in fragging every single piece. Before and after handling I would always scrub down with green soap that I used tattooing. Be careful everyone....

One of the cases I read about involved someone who had been fragging them for years using a saw. This time they really didn't like it and everyone in the house got sick. From purely anecdotal evidence, I suspect that the toxin is dilute enough in the water, that it probably won't cause much issues for people. It's when it is concentrated, like when you're scrubbing a rock covered in them , that the toxin has the potential to cause more severe side effects. I have also heard of people having worse side effects when they believe it got in through a cut.

I will say that when I first bought palys, I had no knowledge about them. I read up on them and sent the LFS a joking e-mail about how the business wouldn't do well if they killed their customers. (Anyone who has seen me post know I make a lot of jokes. I'm the same way in real life) I got a phone call immediately and they felt so bad they had not mentioned it to me. Of course, I told them I was joking about them being serial killers, but it seemed like it was something they did typically mention to people and it just slipped their mind for me. I do think someone should mention the palytoxin when selling them, but I wouldn't think they'd be liable if they didn't. Just seems smart to mention, especially if it's someone new to the hobby.

Also.... will they release the toxin if another coral is stinging them? I may have a kenya tree fighting with my palys.....

 

[bubbasguppies]

Also.... will they release the toxin if another coral is stinging them? I may have a kenya tree fighting with my palys.....

I have never had any issues with coral warfare when it came to my paly's. And the Kenya I had in the 29 biocube grew like a weed. Never even used carbon in that tank.....just a skimmer. But everything flourished.

 

[motortrendz]

I believe one of the articles I read a while back.was a guy decide to actually boil a rock with zoas or.palys on it to get rid of nussansce algae. (One reason I hate when people say boil.the rocks, meaning something totally different but newbies dont know that ) and the steam from the boiling water made the whole family sick and killed the dog.

And the hospit.l had no idea what was wrong with them. Hazmat team was called..
Bad situation on that one.

 

[jordan9095]

sometimes the corals get us but we typically kill them lol

 

[Magellan]

One of the cases I read about involved someone who had been fragging them for years using a saw. This time they really didn't like it and everyone in the house got sick. From purely anecdotal evidence, I suspect that the toxin is dilute enough in the water, that it probably won't cause much issues for people. It's when it is concentrated, like when you're scrubbing a rock covered in them , that the toxin has the potential to cause more severe side effects. I have also heard of people having worse side effects when they believe it got in through a cut.

I will say that when I first bought palys, I had no knowledge about them.

Also.... will they release the toxin if another coral is stinging them? I may have a kenya tree fighting with my palys.....

I got my first Paly when one tiny polyp hitchhiked on my sea urchin from the LFS. I genuinely had no idea what it was or how to ID it...after contemplating tossing it in the trash (it looked like some sort of slug tbh) I ultimately decided to just sit it in a hole in my rock that looked like the right size. I was not confident at all that my tank was ready for corals, but beginners luck is a thing and I had placed it in lower light and lower flow, and now it has 8 happy polyps!

Also I managed not to kill myself.


My Kenya Tree started as a tiny $5 frag (my understanding is that I overpaid) and is now a Kenya Bush that attempts to frag itself over and over. I don’t run carbon (I do run Purigen though) and everything in the tank is happy. (Hammers, Pocillapora, a Goni, Monti, palys, mushrooms, gsp, mini zoas and mini acans so far). At night it becomes
the Kenya Cauliflower

 

[Bleigh]

Lol... The first time I noticed that the tree did that, I thought I had managed to kill it. It was like day 2 or 3. I was like.... HOW??? They say these things grow like crazy. It's amazing how different corals can look when they're "sleeping". lol

 

[Paullawr]

One of the cases I read about involved someone who had been fragging them for years using a saw. This time they really didn't like it and everyone in the house got sick. From purely anecdotal evidence, I suspect that the toxin is dilute enough in the water, that it probably won't cause much issues for people. It's when it is concentrated, like when you're scrubbing a rock covered in them , that the toxin has the potential to cause more severe side effects. I have also heard of people having worse side effects when they believe it got in through a cut.

I will say that when I first bought palys, I had no knowledge about them. I read up on them and sent the LFS a joking e-mail about how the business wouldn't do well if they killed their customers. (Anyone who has seen me post know I make a lot of jokes. I'm the same way in real life) I got a phone call immediately and they felt so bad they had not mentioned it to me. Of course, I told them I was joking about them being serial killers, but it seemed like it was something they did typically mention to people and it just slipped their mind for me. I do think someone should mention the palytoxin when selling them, but I wouldn't think they'd be liable if they didn't. Just seems smart to mention, especially if it's someone new to the hobby.

Also.... will they release the toxin if another coral is stinging them? I may have a kenya tree fighting with my palys.....

There is the difference though dear. You read up on them!

There is no excuse not to and ive yet to meet someone (out of the news report excluded) that hasnt read up hoe to care for their livestock.

Having said this she didnt realise they were even living so.....

 

[Bleigh]

There is the difference though dear. You read up on them!

There is no excuse not to and ive yet to meet someone (out of the news report excluded) that hasnt read up hoe to care for their livestock.

Having said this she didnt realise they were even living so.....

I'm also a nerd... so there's that.

I need to watch this news story... how does someone end up with a coral and not realize it's alive? That made laugh for real.

Of course, people do things like use paint thinner in closed rooms without realizing that's not a great idea. If something that should be common sense can be overlooked, I can see how someone could *posibly* miss that corals are alive...

Actually... I've had people ask if my corals were alive... I assumed they were asking whether they were plastic, but now it occurs to me that might not have been the intention behind the question.

 

[Magellan]

Lol... The first time I noticed that the tree did that, I thought I had managed to kill it. It was like day 2 or 3. I was like.... HOW??? They say these things grow like crazy. It's amazing how different corals can look when they're "sleeping". lol

I had the same reaction! Hammer corals do the same thing, my gsp will turn into this ugly purplish mat, mushrooms curl up, even the palys will close sometimes. But the grand champion is my Goni, it still regularly blows peoples minds. First I tell them it’s an animal, not a plant and they go “whattt??!” And then after lights out, my cleaner shrimp crawls all over it and it shrinks and goes from this massive thing to this little green mound and they realize it’s the same coral and it’s “wait is that the same thing??

 

[Magellan]

There is no excuse not to and ive yet to meet someone (out of the news report excluded) that hasnt read up hoe to care for their livestock.

Having said this she didnt realise they were even living so.....

Natural Selection is a thing