Most likely cause of symptomless deaths

[PDR]

I have had several fish die in my DT over the last 2 years and so far I can't seem to find out why. Some have been truly symptomless, healthy and eating one day, gone the next (presumed dead after several months). Confirmed they did not jump.

Others have shown some symptoms. Slowly, over 3-4 months, wasted away. I know I have ich in this tank, but I have only seen symptoms once or twice in almost 3 years. The wasting away led me to believe I had parasites but never observed any stringy poo and whatever they had did not respond to multiple prazi and metro treatments. All the while no other fish showed any symptoms and remain healthy to this day.

Do you think these are related? What would be your best guess?

 

[Big G]

In addition to the common internal worm problem there are also other internal parasites that can overwhelm the fish's immune system. The fish waste away. Depending on the fish's shape and size, sometimes you can see them getting thin. Can be treated with praziquantel & metro.

 

[brwaldbaum]

In addition to the common internal worm problem there are also other internal parasites that can overwhelm the fish's immune system. The fish waste away. Depending on the fish's shape and size, sometimes you can see them getting thin. Can be treated with praziquantel & metro.

I believe he tried those meds.

 

[brwaldbaum]

I have had several fish die in my DT over the last 2 years and so far I can't seem to find out why. Some have been truly symptomless, healthy and eating one day, gone the next (presumed dead after several months). Confirmed they did not jump.

Others have shown some symptoms. Slowly, over 3-4 months, wasted away. I know I have ich in this tank, but I have only seen symptoms once or twice in almost 3 years. The wasting away led me to believe I had parasites but never observed any stringy poo and whatever they had did not respond to multiple prazi and metro treatments. All the while no other fish showed any symptoms and remain healthy to this day.

Do you think these are related? What would be your best guess?

Have you ever tried levamisole? It treats nematodes (roundworms), whereas prazi treats flatworms and metro treats flagellates.

Another possibility is mycobacteriosis, which, unfortunately, is untreatable.

 

[HotRocks]

Ich can kill fish as well.

It's fully possible the fish that are well in your tank have developed a resistance.

Just curious. What fish have you lost?

 

[PDR]

In addition to the common internal worm problem there are also other internal parasites that can overwhelm the fish's immune system. The fish waste away. Depending on the fish's shape and size, sometimes you can see them getting thin. Can be treated with praziquantel & metro.

I ran multiple treatments with these meds and it did not have any effect.

Have you ever tried levamisole? It treats nematodes (roundworms), whereas prazi treats flatworms and metro treats flagellates.

Another possibility is mycobacteriosis, which, unfortunately, is untreatable.

I have not tried levamisole.

Ich can kill fish as well.

It's fully possible the fish that are well in your tank have developed a resistance.

Just curious. What fish have you lost?

2 year ago I lost a midas blenny. No visible signs of disease. Was eating fine the day before, next day was laying on the sandbed very lethargic, dead the next. Did not notice labored breathing or anything else abnormal. I did not have time to attempt any treatments. I had this fish for about 6 months.

1 year ago I lost a fully grown male grey head wrasse. He slowly thinned out over 4-5 months. It was more the top of his head/back that was thinning and not his stomach. I put him through 4-5 prazi treatments and 2-3 30+ days of feeding metro with no change. He also started acting really weird when eating, he would start breathing really heavily and rest at the bottom of the tank after eating. That went on for 2-3 months before he died. Never acted strangely and no weird breathing any other time. I had him for almost 2.5 years.

3 months ago I lost a bi-color blenny that wasted away over 2-3 months. Was also put through multiple metro and prazi treatments. I had him for 4-5 months.

1 month ago I lost a small fairy wrasse while I was on vacation. My tank sitter said she was eating fine the day before I got home, and was gone the next day. I guess there is a small chance she could have been eaten by one of my mini maxi anemones. I had her for 3-4 months.

I fear I am about to lose my 3-year-old royal gramma. He has stayed wedged in the rock for 3 days now and has not come out to eat. Unfortunately, I can't get to him to put him in QT. He looks normal, no signs of disease, no rapid breathing, etc.


During this time I fed Reef Frenzy soaked in selcon 1x-2x a day.

 

[Maritimer]

The symptoms displayed by the grey-head sound a lot like advanced age to me . . .

Most of the wrasses we keep seem to live about five years - if this fellow was full-sized when you got him, it may well have just been ... his time.

~Bruce

 

[PDR]

The symptoms displayed by the grey-head sound a lot like advanced age to me . . .

Most of the wrasses we keep seem to live about five years - if this fellow was full-sized when you got him, it may well have just been ... his time.

~Bruce

I really hope that is the case. He was fully grown when I got him from DD so there is no telling how old he really was. I guess that would make more sense than a large healthy fish I had for over 2 years randomly getting sick and dying when everything else was fine.

 

[PDR]

Update on the royal gramma. I was able to observe him some last night and this morning. He seems very disoriented, but it was during lights out so that could be part of it. He was slowly swimming in a way that almost looked like his tail fin was paralyzed. He was also wedging himself in parts of the tank that he usually does not visit or sleep. I did not notice any discoloration, bumps, spots, rapid breathing, etc. Visually he looks perfectly fine.

Any ideas?

 

[norfolkgarden]

Update on the royal gramma. I was able to observe him some last night and this morning. He seems very disoriented, but it was during lights out so that could be part of it. He was slowly swimming in a way that almost looked like his tail fin was paralyzed. He was also wedging himself in parts of the tank that he usually does not visit or sleep. I did not notice any discoloration, bumps, spots, rapid breathing, etc. Visually he looks perfectly fine.

Any ideas?

Do you have a pistol shrimp?

Our CBB gets thin without black worms. Eats like a pig constantly. But the only thing it gets fat on is when we feed about 30% black worms.

 

[PDR]

Do you have a pistol shrimp?

Our CBB gets thin without black worms. Eats like a pig constantly. But the only thing it gets fat on is when we feed about 30% black worms.

I do have a pistol shrimp, but he stays isolated to a pretty small rock on the opposite end of the tank.

I have not been able to find the gramma this afternoon. Still didn't come out to eat.

 

[Nicholas Dushynsky]

Update on the royal gramma. I was able to observe him some last night and this morning. He seems very disoriented, but it was during lights out so that could be part of it. He was slowly swimming in a way that almost looked like his tail fin was paralyzed. He was also wedging himself in parts of the tank that he usually does not visit or sleep. I did not notice any discoloration, bumps, spots, rapid breathing, etc. Visually he looks perfectly fine.

Any ideas?

Mine did this 4 days ago. It was feeding fine the day before, then he was sort of being blown around the tank sideways then upside-down wedging itself where ever it could.
I managed to catch it and put it in a mesh style breeding cage to keep and eye on it. The stupid thing managed to jump out, which the hole was above the surface and I have a mesh cover 10mm above that!!! He carried on flowing round the tank, so I caught it again putting a piece of plastic over the hole to stop him jumping out again. Then the lights went out and 5 mins later I heard some splashing and the git had jumped out pushing the plastic enough to get past (thin plastic though) and hid in the rocks. All I could see was it's tail so couldn't get to it. I'd already fragged three corals by catching them on the net trying to catch it.
Then he became bristle worm food then he was dead by morning. I'd had it just over 2 1/2 years.
RIP.

 

[Arvind Arya]

Marine velvet

 

[Nicholas Dushynsky]

Marine velvet

Do you not see any symptoms on the fish with velvet?

 

[Arvind Arya]

Not always

 

[nosmok]

I literally just had this happen! Female swallowtail angel. Eating and normal one day, next day barely moving; lying on side, dead within 12 hours. Mated male completely normal. When I removed and inspected the dead angel there were no marks, abrasions, rash or other abnormalities. what the heck??

 

[Nicholas Dushynsky]

Oh ok. The thing is as there is so much info on the net and you have a fish not doing very well with no issues apart for the swimming badly where do you go for answers. I'll leave it for a while before I replace it and put it down to one of those things that I couldn't do anything about as it just happened so fast.

 

[Arvind Arya]

Velvet will kill within days fish was suddenly die I’m going through this right now I lost every fish but two before you know it it’s too late to quarantine them and the ones that you do quarantine ,might not make it through the process it is the worst thing ever

 

[Nicholas Dushynsky]

Velvet will kill within days fish was suddenly die I’m going through this right now I lost every fish but two before you know it it’s too late to quarantine them and the ones that you do quarantine ,might not make it through the process it is the worst thing ever

I'm sorry to hear that your going through it aswel. It's just horrible when you just feel helpless that you can't help. I was gutted when I lost my 9 and a half year old clown.

 

[PDR]

Update on the Royal Gramma. I found him floating around the tank this evening and was able to catch him. He had some nipped fins, (most likely due to other fish picking on him in his weakened state) and near his tail, there was a whitish area that looked like scales that had come off. I took the best pics I could. He was breathing heavier but not rapid and was kind of stuck in a curved position while floating around. The only thing I can think of at this point is maybe a bacterial infection.

I was able to set up an emergency QT in a 5-gallon bucket with a heater and a battery aerator. I had some old furan 2 left over (less than a year expired) so I added the appropriate amount to the bucket. Just added the fish after the temp was matched.

@Humblefish Any other advice or ideas on what I should do?