Moving Sump To basement. Plumbing/pump questions

[SeaJay]

I don’t see size of the tank. Depending upon total head/friction back pressure you may need a bit more than the Iwaki 40. Always best to run as large return piping as you can to reduce friction.

It’s a 135g

 

[SeaJay]

No biggie... happens to all of us.



Without knowing specifics about the tank size, sump size, amount of tank turn over you want or bulkhead(s) used in sump, it's hard to say if the Iwaki will suit your needs. However, being that you are putting the sump in your basement, it is safe to presume you will be running 12ft of head, minimally ( 8 ft from pump to bottom of upstairs floor + 4 feet up and into the tank). This does not account for running an oversized return, splitting of the return or any additional friction caused by extra fittings. At a glance, the MD-40RXT will be undersized.

FWIW - here is a good video on how to calculate the proper sized pump for applications.

I have about 9' of lift, plus fittings and elbows. The head pressure claculator shows that your estimate of 12' is pretty accurate. I'm going to run the numbers and speak to BRS or Iwaki and see if I can get an answer as to what the flow rate is on that pump at max head pressure. I'll swap it out now if I need to. Last thing I want is to install it and find it to be insufficient. I also don't want to go way overkill, but better safe than sorry.

 

[madweazl]

I have about 9' of lift, plus fittings and elbows. The head pressure claculator shows that your estimate of 12' is pretty accurate. I'm going to run the numbers and speak to BRS or Iwaki and see if I can get an answer as to what the flow rate is on that pump at max head pressure. I'll swap it out now if I need to. Last thing I want is to install it and find it to be insufficient. I also don't want to go way overkill, but better safe than sorry.

At 12' of head pressure, the MD40RXT pushes approx 660gph. The 55RT would be about 810gph. Turnover rates through the sump of about 3x per hour have proven to be effective. The 40 would put you just under 5x per hour and the 55 would get 6x per hour. Each has plenty of overhead for your application.

 

[JoshH]

I have about 9' of lift, plus fittings and elbows. The head pressure claculator shows that your estimate of 12' is pretty accurate. I'm going to run the numbers and speak to BRS or Iwaki and see if I can get an answer as to what the flow rate is on that pump at max head pressure. I'll swap it out now if I need to. Last thing I want is to install it and find it to be insufficient. I also don't want to go way overkill, but better safe than sorry.

What kind of calculator did you use to get these numbers? Just curious, I'm dealing with 16' of head pressure going up one floor as well, however I may have a few more elbows than you.

 

[SeaJay]

What kind of calculator did you use to get these numbers? Just curious, I'm dealing with 16' of head pressure going up one floor as well, however I may have a few more elbows than you.

After posting my thread, I found a similar thread where another member posted a link. I'll see if I can scroll back to it and repost the link here.

 

[SeaJay]

Post #14 is the link to the calculator.

Pump advise for basement sump

I plan on purchasing a Waterbox 180.5 in the near future and the sump will be in the basement. I am looking for recommendations on what pump would be satisfactory for this build. The pump will need to push the water 8 ft. vertical and 12 ft. horizontal with 2 90 degree elbows installed. I would...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[SeaJay]

At 12' of head pressure, the MD40RXT pushes approx 660gph. The 55RT would be about 810gph. Turnover rates through the sump of about 3x per hour have proven to be effective. The 40 would put you just under 5x per hour and the 55 would get 6x per hour. Each has plenty of overhead for your application.

Where did you get those numbers? Did you calculate it, or is it posted it somehwere? Be nice to be able to figure this out for myself next time.

 

[JoshH]

Post #14 is the link to the calculator.

Pump advise for basement sump

I plan on purchasing a Waterbox 180.5 in the near future and the sump will be in the basement. I am looking for recommendations on what pump would be satisfactory for this build. The pump will need to push the water 8 ft. vertical and 12 ft. horizontal with 2 90 degree elbows installed. I would...

www.reef2reef.com

Thanks, the calculator I used for 1" puts me around 16.5' this calculator puts me at 13.4' so I'm trying to figure out the difference

This is the calculator I used which gives friction loss, then you're supposed to add your vertical rise and that's your TDH.

On-Line Friction Piping Loss

 

[madweazl]

Where did you get those numbers? Did you calculate it, or is it posted it somehwere? Be nice to be able to figure this out for myself next time.

I don't know why BRS doesnt have it posted but you can find the flow chart in this post.

 

[SeaJay]

I don't know why BRS doesnt have it posted but you can find the flow chart in this post.

I contacted them, they said they can't send outisde links, but told me what to Google to find it.

 

[crusso1993]

@SeaJay - I love that you're doing your own research on this as many, many people don't and then cannot share anything learned with others.

FWIW - I do believe you'll come to the result that the model pump you bought is a bit undersized for what you want to achieve. As a matter of fact, have you stated what it is you want to achieve? i.e.- tank turnover rate through sump, output at returns in tank, etc.

 

[SeaJay]

@SeaJay - I love that you're doing your own research on this as many, many people don't and then cannot share anything learned with others.

FWIW - I do believe you'll come to the result that the model pump you bought is a bit undersized for what you want to achieve. As a matter of fact, have you stated what it is you want to achieve? i.e.- tank turnover rate through sump, output at returns in tank, etc.

Thanks. Generally the challenge & learning is what appeals to me about hobbies. If I stop learning & growing, I'll get bored with them pretty quickly. I'm still fairly new to this. I'm not experienced enough to really know what I want/need in terms of flow. I bought everything I have as a complete newb with the intention of FOWLR/predator tank. Of course a year and a half later, I'm ready to start keeping corals. My rock work is lame, so I'm re-doing that. Lighting is insufficient, so I'm upgrading that. I've got a mixing station and RODI in the basement now, so it only makes sense to move the sump down there as well. Plus the tank is behind my couch in the living room so I'm trying to remove as much of the noise as possible from the living room, even though it's really pretty quiet.

I've posted several threads in different forums to make sure I'm doing all this right so I don't find myself in the same situation a year from now wishing I had done ____ differently.

I have a 135g DT (Seapora 72"x18'x25" dual corner overflows) with an Eshopps rs-300 sump. Total water volume probably about 150g. Simplicity 240DC skimmer, dual Sicce Syncra Silent 3.0 return pumps(in sump), dual Sicce Xstream 925gph wavemakers, finnex titanium 500w heater. Recently upgraded from dual 36" Fluval Sea lights to an Aquatic Life 61" hybrid T5 fixture with noopsyche k7 pro LEDs. Actually having some issues with the new aquatic life fixture light right now. Got a thread on that in the lighting forum.

Really the only thing I desperately needed in order to convert from FOWLR to reef is the lighting, but since I hate my rockwork and want the sump in the basement, I decided to just knock everything out at once, stabilize the new set-up and add corals. I don't want to have to do any more upgrades for a while after this.

 

[Flippers4pups]

Basement sump here now for 5 years. 125 DT upstairs and a 125 for a basement sump. I use a Panworld 150 PS. It's equivalent to the Iwaki MD55.

Model 150PS - equal to Iwaki MD55 Pressure rated
1100gph max flow
28 foot max head pressure
180 watts
1" MPT in/out
Footprint 5 x 12

 

[SeaJay]

According to Sicce's flow chart, I'm getting about 1100-1200 gph turnover with my current setup at 4' head. That's almost 10x turnover. Should I shoot for closer to 5x turnover through the sump and increase my flow in the tank? I was already considering dropping the Sicce X-streams in favor of the MP40.

 

[SeaJay]

Basement sump here now for 5 years. 125 DT upstairs and a 125 for a basement sump. I use a Panworld 150 PS. It's equivalent to the Iwaki MD55.

Model 150PS - equal to Iwaki MD55 Pressure rated
1100gph max flow
28 foot max head pressure
180 watts
1" MPT in/out
Footprint 5 x 12

I didn't initially realize that the difference was so significant based on the general specs in the product listings. Reading the flow charts changes things for me. According to iwaki, the 55 is flowing about 900gph @ 12' head. The 40rxt about 600gph.

 

[madweazl]

According to Sicce's flow chart, I'm getting about 1100-1200 gph turnover with my current setup at 4' head. That's almost 10x turnover. Should I shoot for closer to 5x turnover through the sump and increase my flow in the tank? I was already considering dropping the Sicce X-streams in favor of the MP40.

Your return pump need only be sized to bring an adequate amount of flow through the sump; over the years, 3x has become the typical recommendation. Triton recommends 10x but they've also never been able to explain why they recommend this. I've used 3x as the goal for 20+ years now and have never had any issues. Flow within the display should be addressed with different pumps in the display (such as the MP40s you mentioned).

 

[crusso1993]

Thanks. Generally the challenge & learning is what appeals to me about hobbies. If I stop learning & growing, I'll get bored with them pretty quickly. I'm still fairly new to this. I'm not experienced enough to really know what I want/need in terms of flow. I bought everything I have as a complete newb with the intention of FOWLR/predator tank. Of course a year and a half later, I'm ready to start keeping corals. My rock work is lame, so I'm re-doing that. Lighting is insufficient, so I'm upgrading that. I've got a mixing station and RODI in the basement now, so it only makes sense to move the sump down there as well. Plus the tank is behind my couch in the living room so I'm trying to remove as much of the noise as possible from the living room, even though it's really pretty quiet.

I've posted several threads in different forums to make sure I'm doing all this right so I don't find myself in the same situation a year from now wishing I had done ____ differently.

I have a 135g DT (Seapora 72"x18'x25" dual corner overflows) with an Eshopps rs-300 sump. Total water volume probably about 150g. Simplicity 240DC skimmer, dual Sicce Syncra Silent 3.0 return pumps(in sump), dual Sicce Xstream 925gph wavemakers, finnex titanium 500w heater. Recently upgraded from dual 36" Fluval Sea lights to an Aquatic Life 61" hybrid T5 fixture with noopsyche k7 pro LEDs. Actually having some issues with the new aquatic life fixture light right now. Got a thread on that in the lighting forum.

Really the only thing I desperately needed in order to convert from FOWLR to reef is the lighting, but since I hate my rockwork and want the sump in the basement, I decided to just knock everything out at once, stabilize the new set-up and add corals. I don't want to have to do any more upgrades for a while after this.

Thanks for the info!

With the addition of new rock, will you be using live rock or dry rock?

According to Sicce's flow chart, I'm getting about 1100-1200 gph turnover with my current setup at 4' head. That's almost 10x turnover. Should I shoot for closer to 5x turnover through the sump and increase my flow in the tank? I was already considering dropping the Sicce X-streams in favor of the MP40.

Annnnd here comes the answer everyone loves; it depends. Lol It used to be that everyone shot for a 10x turnover rate. In recent years, many reefers started preferring a rate of 5 - 7x's. Some like 3x's.

I would be happy with a turnover of 5x's. Plus, using wavemakers (DC) will give you more options and control over flow within your tank.

 

[madweazl]

Annnnd here comes the answer everyone loves; it depends. Lol It used to be that everyone shot for a 10x turnover rate. In recent years, many reefers started preferring a rate of 5 - 7x's. Some like 3x's.

The only time I've ever seen 10x recommended was Triton.

 

[Flippers4pups]

Flow in the DT is dependent on what's kept in it. SPS dominant- around 20-30x. Power heads, wave makers....etc.

Flow through the sump (return pump) is common at 5-3x based on contact time with a skimmer, filtration.....etc. Anything more is a waste of electricity. Your mileage may vary. Using return pumps as flow within the DT is a moot point.

Closed loop is a different story.

 

[crusso1993]

The only time I've ever seen 10x recommended was Triton.

Late 80's and early 90's.