Mystery coral die off

[Lasse]

I´m sorry - I was not adware of your algae - I still think that a ICP is useful but the real problem may be the algae.

IMO - when you get back the result from ICP - one of the first thing that I would suggest - before anything else - is to defeat the algae. There is some indications that an algae invasion can change the microbial composition in a reef - make it easier for algae to survive and make it more difficult for coral to thrive. They do this with help of releasing different type of DOC compared with the corals.

It is also difficult to see what type of algae it is - there can be chemicals involved too. The way I would do - if it was my tank - is to ad more grazers. In this case I would use urchins - I prefer the black long-pinned ones but you maybe need some different species. Some bristletooth tangs should work well too. A sea hare can do a good job too.

When the algae is gone - you can start adapt the other parameters

However - it will take some time - this is not going to be fixed in a week or two

Another little trick I have used in the past when I got algae problems. I do not do any WC during this time. The evil plan behind this is that the fast growth of algae can actually deplete some of the trace elements, hence stop up the alga growth rate. In this case - the result from your ICP can give you a hint

I´m also sorry to say that the use of metroplex maybe can make the problem worse. It is an anti flagellate drug - the Zoox of corals are dinoflagellates.......

Sincerely Lasse

 

[HotRocks]

I got my ICP test back and other than low Iodine and low PO4, nothing else out of the ordinary. I knew the PO4 would be low because I was running GFO to see if anything would change. Nothing did. Whether .2 ppm or .02 ppm, hard coral still dying. I have noticed over the last week or so some increased PE on my gonis. This could be from dosing phyto or switching salt. Other than stopping GFO, these are the only changes I've made. I'm discounting the GFO stoppage because hard corals were dying before and after GFO.

As for the low iodine, I don't know why it was low. I use ESV two part and was doing WCs every week with Red Sea blue bucket. I switched salt to Fritz blue box since my LFS has it at a good price. Was running Red Sea blue bucket when the ICP sample was taken. So not sure why Iodine was low at 12 ppb, ICP says it needs to be at 70 ppb, other sources say 25-80 ppb. Maybe Red Sea salt had lower iodine concentration as I got to the bottom of the bucket, hard to say. I don't really think this has been the source of my problems.

Then there is dosing live phyto over the last 1.5 weeks. I didn't see a change when first dosing, but since I've been dosing 100mL/day, I've seen a steady increase in pod population, most noticeable at night. Its been so good that for the first time I saw a fish fry swimming in the current and eating particles out of the water column. I have a pair of swallowtail damsels that spawn constantly and a group of Talbot's that I'm sure are spawning.

The 3 acropora frags are still slowly dying. No change there. Only SPS I have left. Positive is one of my blasto frags has 2 new heads. From 1 big lonely polyp to big polyp and about 6 baby polyps. At least one hard coral is growing.

Do you run a fuge?

 

[Crabs McJones]

May have been asked already, but when were your rodi filters changed last? Including membranes? Also did you check all equipment for rusting? Or that a screw or razor blade didnt get dropped in the sump? @saltyfilmfolks I think had that issue a while back. Found a rusting razor blade in the back chamber of his sump just chilling.

 

[TheHarold]

May have been asked already, but when were your rodi filters changed last? Including membranes? Also did you check all equipment for rusting? Or that a screw or razor blade didnt get dropped in the sump? @saltyfilmfolks I think had that issue a while back. Found a rusting razor blade in the back chamber of his sump just chilling.

In theory rusting would be detected with ICP! Happened to me before with a razor.

 

[HotRocks]

@jsker

You have gotten wonderful advice so far.

I agree with the consensus that an ICP test is in order.

I also agree with @Lasse that if you have dosed metro during this ordeal that it could very much be a large part of the problem you are experiencing with the coral die-off as it is generally not a "reef safe" medication. I wish I had more insight here for you...

 

[drawman]

I've been there myself. Where it seems like you turn over every stone and can't find a single reason why SPS are going south. I even had SPS bubbling which made me feel that it had a bacterial component.

Even with how much I want to blame bacteria I can assume it is more likely the coral are weakened which may allow bacteria or some other component (parasite or stressor) to win. With SPS it can be like trying to find a needle in a haystack when it comes to what's wrong (ie rusty magnet). Now if LPS, etc. are affected then I would really suspect something completely off that is not related to a virulent bacteria.

 

[jsker]

Another little trick I have used in the past when I got algae problems. I do not do any WC during this time. The evil plan behind this is that the fast growth of algae can actually deplete some of the trace elements, hence stop up the alga growth rate. In this case - the result from your ICP can give you a hint

I was kind of think the same, but not quite sure if other have done this to let the bio load and bacteria balance out. I like it!!

Do you run a fuge?
No, just the sump with the bio media

May have been asked already, but when were your rodi filters changed last? Including membranes? Also did you check all equipment for rusting? Or that a screw or razor blade didnt get dropped in the sump? @saltyfilmfolks I think had that issue a while back. Found a rusting razor blade in the back chamber of his sump just chilling.

I change out the total RO/IO filers and media about 5 weeks ago.

I checked rust or and metal the was even close to the water and only change out a fitting leading for the return. I was thinking the same back in March.

 

[jsker]

In theory rusting would be detected with ICP! Happened to me before with a razor.

Question, how much postage did you have to use to send the test to Colorado?

 

[jsker]

I've been there myself. Where it seems like you turn over every stone and can't find a single reason why SPS are going south. I even had SPS bubbling which made me feel that it had a bacterial component.

Even with how much I want to blame bacteria I can assume it is more likely the coral are weakened which may allow bacteria or some other component (parasite or stressor) to win. With SPS it can be like trying to find a needle in a haystack when it comes to what's wrong (ie rusty magnet). Now if LPS, etc. are affected then I would really suspect something completely off that is not related to a virulent bacteria.

This was suggest by Kevin over a @Hanna Instruments that is could be a bacteria or even a virus. Since I have been Broadcasting the antibiotics there has been some improvement.

As everybody's been saying, it could be a combination of things

 

[TheHarold]

Question, how much postage did you have to use to send the test to Colorado?

I always use USPS priority, so it gets there in 2 days. Which ends up being like $7.

(My concern is that something will happen to the parameters if it is in transit for a week)

 

[TheHarold]

This was suggest by Kevin over a @Hanna Instruments that is could be a bacteria or even a virus. Since I have been Broadcasting the antibiotics there has been some improvement.

As everybody's been saying, it could be a combination of things

I’ve been hearing more and more about antibiotics, infections, and stuff like philastar. It’s pretty confusing to me- I’m not sure if it’s just a scapegoat for the typical “struggle” to keep coral, or if there is really something going around. Really hard to know for sure.

 

[jsker]

I always use USPS priority, so it gets there in 2 days. Which ends up being like $7.

(My concern is that something will happen to the parameters if it is in transit for a week)

Thank you, I am going to head over to the main post office by the airport and send it out now.

I’ve been hearing more and more about antibiotics, infections, and stuff like philastar. It’s pretty confusing to me- I’m not sure if it’s just a scapegoat for the typical “struggle” to keep coral, or if there is really something going around. Really hard to know for sure.

I really think you all are on to something. My gut is telling me that it is some that is going around. I think the researchers are treating the corals off the Florida coast with tetracycline and it has been work.

 

[jsker]

The sample has been sent. The sample should be there by Friday and it was $7.90 sent priority mail. Thank you @TheHarold for the head up. Now just to set back and wait for the results

I dosed up the Mg yesterday, lets see if this helps with the GHA.

I will test later today just to see where my parameters are at to compare to the test results.

 

[erk]

Do you run a fuge?

I guess you could call it a fuge, but it just has rock in it. I light it so hair algae and such can grow if they want and to help with pH stabilization with the inverse light schedule. I don't have much hair algae growing in it though.

 

[jsker]

@jsker

You have gotten wonderful advice so far.

I agree with the consensus that an ICP test is in order.

I also agree with @Lasse that if you have dosed metro during this ordeal that it could very much be a large part of the problem you are experiencing with the coral die-off as it is generally not a "reef safe" medication. I wish I had more insight here for you...

Thank you buy the way.

 

[jsker]

Just tested my numbers

I have some minor fluctuation after dosing the Mg yesterday along with the increase with the water change. Aquaforest reef salt is always has a little more Mg then it says on the label Still one of the best reef salts I have used in my time reefing. I am going to change out the GFO in a few and then let the tank ride for a couple of days.

 

[dwest]

Just tested my numbers

I have some minor fluctuation after dosing the Mg yesterday along with the increase with the water change. Aquaforest reef salt is always has a little more Mg then it says on the label Still one of the best reef salts I have used in my time reefing. I am going to change out the GFO in a few and then let the tank ride for a couple of days.

Been following, but unfortunately have nothing good to add. I second the addition of grazers though. Good luck!

 

[MARK M. DAVIS]

Your tank has an imbalance. The hair algae is the indicator. Icp/triton test. Do you have a nitrate export system, other than water changes and skimmer? Do you have silica buster on your rodi? It would seem that nitrates are too high which causes lps to do well and sps to suffer. Also, do you dose? Your tank isn’t looking well so you probably aren’t consuming elements very fast. I’m sure the bacterial clean up crew is working on your dead coral. They are most likely the resultant and not the cause. Do you dip for pests prior to sps addition into your tank? These things I mentioned are a start but, you have somstuff to do to get your system where it was a year ago. Doesn’t look like a single fix solution!

Yes, it had no hair algae back then...something changes!

 

[MARK M. DAVIS]

Changed

 

[jsker]

Been following, but unfortunately have nothing good to add. I second the addition of grazers though. Good luck!

You will think of something

Thank you for following along.