Need tang/qt advice

[Jberge]

The tang police will be called on me for this one. I went to a LFS this weekend looking for a kole tang for my 72g. They didn't have one, so I decided on a small yellow. Then I saw an Atlantic blue and left with both of them. The fact that the store is an hr away added to my impulsivity. They are both around 2"-2.5". I put them in my 20g qt sat afternoon. The yellow is very active and eating well but bullies the Atlantic blue occasionally. The blue is eating but is definitely timid. I guess my first question is, should I keep both of them if I'm planning on upgrading to a 6' tank in the next year or 2 or should I return one regardless? Second question is, as far as qt'ing, I was going to use prazi first but the blue has a few spots of ich now, so should I start with cupramine? Any sort of advice would be helpful.

 

[Fishfinder]

They'll be OK in the QT for the month. You could TTM and prazi at the same time

 

[4FordFamily]

I would start with copper and then prazi.

Unfortunately, Atlantic blues can grow from 1" to 5" in a year, as mine did. You'll need to upgrade far sooner if you want to keep that fish, happily.

 

[ngoodermuth]

I would freshwater dip the blue and look for flukes (it will help with the ich anyway) If flukes show, you can treat prazi with copper, just watch for bacterial blooms and add an extra airline or powerhead to the tank.

If no flukes show, you can wait for any prophylactic treatment until after the copper is done.

Regarding keeping two tangs in a 75...well, it's not ideal but if you are going to upgrade soon it might be ok temporarily. The yellow might get more territorial over time, so just be ready to rehome one, or fast-forward your upgrade- if it doesn't work out.

 

[Jberge]

I would start with copper and then prazi.

Unfortunately, Atlantic blues can grow from 1" to 5" in a year, as mine did. You'll need to upgrade far sooner if you want to keep that fish, happily.

Wow that's fast! I thought I'd have a little more time. I really like him a lot already so I guess I should start saving up. Only if the stupid store had a kole I'd be fine lol. Do you think I should give it another couple days before the copper to let him get comfortable and eat some more?

 

[ngoodermuth]

Wow that's fast! I thought I'd have a little more time. I really like him a lot already so I guess I should start saving up. Only if the stupid store had a kole I'd be fine lol. Do you think I should give it another couple days before the copper to let him get comfortable and eat some more?

If he already has symptoms, I would start ramping it up. You can do it slowly if you think they are managing the parasites alright, but that way if things start to get worse you already have a head start.

 

[Jberge]

If he already has symptoms, I would start ramping it up. You can do it slowly if you think they are managing the parasites alright, but that way if things start to get worse you already have a head start.

That sounds like a good idea. I'll start bringing it up slowly. Another question, if aggression isn't a problem in the DT, what do you think the max size would be before the upgrade is needed?

 

[ngoodermuth]

I don't think there is a size limit per say, it's more behavioral. Besides obvious aggression, they can just appear agitated or distressed, continuously pacing the glass, dull or fading colors, compromised immune system-being prone to bacterial or viral infections- things like that.

 

[Jberge]

I don't think there is a size limit per say, it's more behavioral. Besides obvious aggression, they can just appear agitated or distressed, continuously pacing the glass, dull or fading colors, compromised immune system-being prone to bacterial or viral infections- things like that.

Ok thanks

 

[4FordFamily]

If he already has symptoms, I would start ramping it up. You can do it slowly if you think they are managing the parasites alright, but that way if things start to get worse you already have a head start.

Agree.

 

[biga1106]

Lol

 

[4FordFamily]

Lol

Lambo tang police, at that!

 

[Jberge]

Well I added the last dose of copper today and they are both doing well. There haven't been any signs of ich on the blue since tues. He is awesome and has a very relaxed personality. The yellow is basically just an ******. I was hoping that he'd calm down a bit after a few days but he's pretty much the same. I don't know how he'll be in my DT with everyone else. I was considering putting an egg crate divider in the qt to make him settle down but idk if that's a good idea.

 

[Jberge]

@4FordFamily @ngoodermuth I was just leaving for work and noticed the blue at the bottom of the tank, listing from side to side and basically being pushed around by the flow. It was fine and ate last night. They have been at full copper since thurs and there is no visible signs of anything wrong. The yellow seems fine. Knowing what a fish looks like when it's dying, I decided to do a FW dip. I've never performed one before and with not much time I didn't re-read humble's instructions first. It freaked out twice and then wasn't moving so I pulled it after 2-1/2 mins. I guess it was playing dead according to humble's post. Once back in the qt started swimming again but went back to the same spot at the bottom. Idk if it'll make it through the day, it didn't look good. Could it be flukes and was the FW dip long enough to help at all? If it's alive when I get home I'm not sure what to do. Should I dose the prazi with the copper?

 

[4FordFamily]

Caribbean blue can be fragile at first, especially when small.

Any ammonia present according to your ammonia badge? I see that as a more likely culprit.

To be sure, you didn't dose any amquel, prime, or ammonia detoxifier products in conjunction with copper, correct?

 

[ngoodermuth]

During the freshwater dip (even though it was stopped short) did you notice any "scales" turning white or coming loose? Usually it takes about 3-4 minutes to really start seeing flukes fly off, but at 2 1/2 minutes you might see a few starting to dislodge.

Were there any visible wounds or discoloration? I know you said the yellow was being a butt-head, is it possible there was aggression from him? I would maybe go ahead and add the divider to rule out aggression.

And +1 to checking ammonia.

 

[ngoodermuth]

Also, how is your oxygen exchange? If you have an extra airline or a small powerhead that might help. Medications, including copper, can lower the oxygen content of the water.

There is also the possibility he is suffering a secondary infection from the parasites.

I'm sorry, it's tough to say. I hope he can hang in there for you. My best advice would be maybe a rally (acriflavine) bath if he is still alive tonight.

 

[Jberge]

Caribbean blue can be fragile at first, especially when small.

Any ammonia present according to your ammonia badge? I see that as a more likely culprit.

To be sure, you didn't dose any amquel, prime, or ammonia detoxifier products in conjunction with copper, correct?

No I didn't dose any detoxifiers. The badge looks almost yellow when the light is on and the light green when the light is off. I've been doing 25% WC's every other day and just did one last night. I started the qt with a 3wk seeded sponge and 2 small pieces of LR in the filter. I also dosed stability. I know I've read a million times that any ammonia is fatal.

During the freshwater dip (even though it was stopped short) did you notice any "scales" turning white or coming loose? Usually it takes about 3-4 minutes to really start seeing flukes fly off, but at 2 1/2 minutes you might see a few starting to dislodge.

Were there any visible wounds or discoloration? I know you said the yellow was being a butt-head, is it possible there was aggression from him? I would maybe go ahead and add the divider to rule out aggression.

And +1 to checking ammonia.

I was in quite a rush and wasn't very thorough but I didn't notice anything dislodge. I also didn't see any visible wounds. I added a piece an extra piece of PVC last week and rearranged them. The aggression appeared to get better after they had more hiding spots

 

[Jberge]

Also, how is your oxygen exchange? If you have an extra airline or a small powerhead that might help. Medications, including copper, can lower the oxygen content of the water.

There is also the possibility he is suffering a secondary infection from the parasites.

I'm sorry, it's tough to say. I hope he can hang in there for you. My best advice would be maybe a rally (acriflavine) bath if he is still alive tonight.

I have a 600gph powerhead pointed at the surface along with the hob. I don't have to acriflavine but I'll get some. I really hope he survives but unfortunately I know what it looks like when a fish is not going to make it

 

[Dom]

@4FordFamily @ngoodermuth I was just leaving for work and noticed the blue at the bottom of the tank, listing from side to side and basically being pushed around by the flow. It was fine and ate last night. They have been at full copper since thurs and there is no visible signs of anything wrong. The yellow seems fine. Knowing what a fish looks like when it's dying, I decided to do a FW dip. I've never performed one before and with not much time I didn't re-read humble's instructions first. It freaked out twice and then wasn't moving so I pulled it after 2-1/2 mins. I guess it was playing dead according to humble's post. Once back in the qt started swimming again but went back to the same spot at the bottom. Idk if it'll make it through the day, it didn't look good. Could it be flukes and was the FW dip long enough to help at all? If it's alive when I get home I'm not sure what to do. Should I dose the prazi with the copper?

If that Yellow Tang is bullying him, he may have internal injuries and may very well be dying. I had a Valentino Puffer that looked fine when I found him dead in the tank. One of the Tomato Clowns I have beat it to death. He had no visible injuries. It was a territorial thing.

I would suggest a partition of egg crate to keep him isolated and protected while treating.