Nitrate management beyond water changes in a nano.

[jan4scuba]

In my 9 gallon nano I have about 14 lbs of live rock. 1.5 inch crushed coral substrate and 1 clown fish which I feed sparingly. I have mostly LPS, Zoa's and mushrooms. I have a lot of coral all over the bottom. They get fed Snow and some phyto. I do weekly water changes of 1-2 gallons. All my parameters are spot on except nitrates which use to range from 10 to as high as 40 sometimes. I just started using Kordons Amquel and the nitrates are below 5 for the last 2 weeks. No negative effects on anything yet.

If i wanted to How would I vacuum the substrate without moving all the coral and live rock out of the way?it could be a disaster having to put them all back the same way again.

And I always thought that nitrates under 20 were good for Zoa's and shrooms? There is so much conflicting information about this hobby it can keep you up at night. And it's not even like the information all have the same basic idea. There is such differences in opinion on almost everything that they seem to be totally opposite in nature. The only thing everyone agrees on is patience and consistency.

 

[telesonic]

What kind of skimmer are you using?
Any skimmer that only pulls watery green liquid as skim mate is not efficient enough for your tank.
An efficient skimmer will get rid of organics before they turn into nitrates.
You may want to consider an upgrade to your skimmer.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

In my 9 gallon nano I have about 14 lbs of live rock. 1.5 inch crushed coral substrate and 1 clown fish which I feed sparingly. I have mostly LPS, Zoa's and mushrooms. I have a lot of coral all over the bottom. They get fed Snow and some phyto. I do weekly water changes of 1-2 gallons. All my parameters are spot on except nitrates which use to range from 10 to as high as 40 sometimes. I just started using Kordons Amquel and the nitrates are below 5 for the last 2 weeks. No negative effects on anything yet.

If i wanted to How would I vacuum the substrate without moving all the coral and live rock out of the way?it could be a disaster having to put them all back the same way again.

And I always thought that nitrates under 20 were good for Zoa's and shrooms? There is so much conflicting information about this hobby it can keep you up at night. And it's not even like the information all have the same basic idea. There is such differences in opinion on almost everything that they seem to be totally opposite in nature. The only thing everyone agrees on is patience and consistency.

It is true that not all of the organisms we keep like the same conditions. Combine that with the fact that nitrate kits are frequently inaccurate and that there are no careful studies to demonstrate what nutrient levels are best (however that may be defined: growth, color, reproduction, behavior, expansion, etc.) then it is not surprising that opinions vary significantly.

Further, even if certain nutrients are best for soft corals, those same conditions may also be good for pest algae or cyanobacteria.

So the optimal nutrient and trace metal levels in many aquaria may have to be determined by the aquarist by trial and error with his or her specific goals in mind.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

What kind of skimmer are you using?
Any skimmer that only pulls watery green liquid as skim mate is not efficient enough for your tank.
An efficient skimmer will get rid of organics before they turn into nitrates.
You may want to consider an upgrade to your skimmer.

I don't believe that the "wetness" of the skimmate is a useful indicator of total organic removal. You need to consider the volume as well. More wet skimmate may export more organic matter than letting that same skimmate drain more extensively into a drier material.

 

[jan4scuba]

Thanks. That's about the truest and best answer I've heard from a experienced hobbyist. There is no one right answers. It's what works best for your individual tank based on your individual situation.

 

[bwrag]

I have a 6 gallon jbj with a clown it. (tank wasn't intended for him my other clown bit his tail almost off and would have killed him if not removed). I may do 1 gallon water change every two months. the tank is jam packed with xenia gsp monti and Kenya and they seem to filter the water well. i run no carbon or gfo. i just have a piece of filter floss that i change weekly to catch deb-re. I have tested this water a lot and always is good. My belief is the xenia is a good water filter, because it seems to out grow the rest.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I have a 6 gallon jbj with a clown it. (tank wasn't intended for him my other clown bit his tail almost off and would have killed him if not removed). I may do 1 gallon water change every two months. the tank is jam packed with xenia gsp monti and Kenya and they seem to filter the water well. i run no carbon or gfo. i just have a piece of filter floss that i change weekly to catch deb-re. I have tested this water a lot and always is good. My belief is the xenia is a good water filter, because it seems to out grow the rest.

Most anything that grows fast that you are not adding food for is good for nutrient export, and Xenia fits that description in many tanks.

Some people find it grows well for a while, then slows or even dies out. No one knows for sure why, but it could be due to a trace element deficiency.

 

[bwrag]

Most anything that grows fast that you are not adding food for is good for nutrient export, and Xenia fits that description in many tanks.

Some people find it grows well for a while, then slows or even dies out. No one knows for sure why, but it could be due to a trace element deficiency.

Im not sure why but if i put it in my main tank i quicklky melts away and i did regular water changes and dosed (now attempting triton).
but back on topic this may be a natural way you could attempt nitrate export if it will grow for you, but be careful because it is everywhere in my nano.

 

[hyperionfall]

Do you have any type of macro algae? I use a scrubber and chaeto and that keeps my nitrate very low and I feed heavy. I do a 10% water change every couple of months to help with nutrients and I 2 part dose. I have a really good skimmer (Avast CS2). Total water volume is around 120 gallons. I run phosban and occasionally carbon. I have never had a nano/micro so I am not sure if these methods are adaptable but it has worked well for me.

 

[Virtualbasil]

I don't think there is any negative effects to running a small bag of carbon is there ?

 

[Zoaddicted]

I use one of those siphon tube gizmos they sell for vacuuming gravel. They have a large cylinder on one end attached to a hose. I spliced in a plastic valve from the hardware sore so that I can easily control flow:

That's a brilliant idea adding a ball valve onto the vacuum hose. I'm going to try that.

We are also using your hamster bottle ATO method on our 14 gallon bio cube. Works great. Thank you!

 

[Nano sapiens]

That's a brilliant idea adding a ball valve onto the vacuum hose. I'm going to try that.

We are also using your hamster bottle ATO method on our 14 gallon bio cube. Works great. Thank you!

The valve does make it very easy to dial in just enough flow to suspend the detritus without sucking up sand.

Nice to see that you're using the bottle ATO. I've had mine in operation for 7 years and they have been 100% reliable.

 

[JUSTINSREEF]

What is this hamster bottle ato

 

[jonbar1]

I do weekly 5-7 gallon waterchanges on my 12g that holds 8 gallons of water. However, the salt I use has my ideal parameters to start with and I don't dose anything.

 

[Nano sapiens]

What is this hamster bottle ato

Added a 'shroud' to make it less noticeable:

 

[brandon429]

after reading this thread i have a different take

do nothing as a change, your params are good, that nitrate measure ballpark figure constitutes 90% of the running nanos worldwide that show great coral growth. the range of measure you are reporting even if dropped wont make a substantial impact on algae management as the challenges come and go for a nano, thats the only reason i wasnt seeing a need for work on this tank. no current probs, and any upcoming ones arent caused by low to mid levels of nitrate, IMO and are easily dealt with having nothing to do with these posted nitrate ranges.
B

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I don't think there is any negative effects to running a small bag of carbon is there ?

No, although it won't help noticeably with nitrate.

 

[glb]

I don't believe that the "wetness" of the skimmate is a useful indicator of total organic removal. You need to consider the volume as well. More wet skimmate may export more organic matter than letting that same skimmate drain more extensively into a drier material.

I have a Coralife skimmer that skims away. It skims dry (lots of bubbles) which collapse and turn into the green fluid. It smells like a flower garden though, so I have my doubts about what it's pulling out of the water. It's definitely pulling something though. There's a green slimy film I have to wipe off when I clean it.

 

[zemuss]

There are different methods of No3 and Po4 reduction. However have you thought about some chaeto? Or possibly adding a container to the setup for a ATS setup?

Dosing isn't always the answer.

With my ATS and refugium i am at <5ppm nitrates and undetectable po4.

 

[Oceansize]

I'll defer to nano-sapiens' superior knowledge and experience, I've never heard of feeding MORE in order to make nitrates LESS, but I'm certain I have less experience than they. Otherwise I would have suggested feeding less, LOL.

But to answer your question, pretty much anything that is alive in your tank (including live rock) produces nitrates, or rather produces ammonia or nitrites that become nitrates. This is why you can cycle a tank using only live rock. Bacteria representing every stage of the nitrogen cycle exist in there. Live rock even has bacteria that eats nitrates, but it doesn't really work that well unless they are in a low-oxygen environment. Live rock has a lot of dead areas without much circulation inside so it can eat nitrates even when water flow and oxygen are good in the tank, but generally not nearly efficiently enough to lower nitrates without help in other ways.

Personally I use a sulphur denitrator to remove nitrates and I love it. It's probably overkill for your tank unless you're a geek like me who likes to have a gadget for everything (not just this hobby). The smallest one I'm aware of can handle tanks up to 250 gallons (mine is 92). But what the heck, check 'em out, maybe you'll like what you see. (I use the Korallin S-1502)

They make gravel vacuums for sale in the aquarium industry: they're basically siphon hoses with the mouth end considerably wider than the main part of the hose. This allows sand and detritus to get pulled up into the hose, but due to the wide diameter of the hose at the mouth end, the suction is not enough for the weight of the sand and it falls back out of the mouth of the hose while all the dirty water continues to exit via siphon. So it essentially sucks the detritus out of the sand but leaves the sand behind due to it's weight. Frankly I'd start with a gravel vacuum before trying anything more expensive, it sounds like your substrate could be the main culprit.