nitrates and sps

CastAway · Dec 22, 2015

So, algae is more of a product of PO4 than NO3?

If I want to increase NO3, wouldn't I tune my skimmer down, maybe run dryer?

Ive been manually dosing vodka to try and limit nutrients (NO3 and PO4) and get rid of micro algae. Which is better, bacteria full of nutrients as coral food, or, a detectable amount of NO3?

Steve Dillon · Dec 22, 2015

Your trying to get rid of cyno?

CastAway · Dec 22, 2015

Yup, red cyano.

Steve Dillon · Dec 22, 2015

I had that once way back when I first started... increase your water flow if you dont have any sensitive corals.. and suck as much as you can when changing water.. hope you fight get better soon..

Steve Dillon · Dec 22, 2015

And if I remember correctly that type is phosphate related.

Steve Dillon · Dec 22, 2015

Caused from phosphate and feed by nitrates.

Steve Dillon · Dec 22, 2015

Not trying to be a know it all.. just sharing what I have learned..

CastAway · Dec 23, 2015

Dude, I appreciate it!

Jmcdaniel0 · Dec 23, 2015

I was hoping this thread would take off. If the reef club wanted to do a grow out test. I would he glad to order a nice chunk of across to be flagged out on my next order. That way Noone is out the cost of a nice frag. And we can make sure everyone has the same stuff.

Jmcdaniel0 · Dec 23, 2015

Steve Dillon said:
If this is the case then at 10 ppm I should be able to add a sps coral and it would lower my nitrates.. but it doesnt live longer than a few weeks.. so would that not be against logic? I would love to learn more and maybe someday be able to keep sps..

I would ask what other variables are in play. Light? Salt? Temp? Ph? My tank keeps SPS just fine. My No3 hovers around 5, but tested today at 10. I have been being lazy lol.

Steve Dillon · Dec 23, 2015

All three takes vary.. I think im going to buy 2 frags and start doing a test in my bio cube under leds and the 65 under t-5.

Steve Dillon · Dec 23, 2015

Bought a phosphate test kit today.. neither of my tanks that have been up the longest are ready more than .36 so not as bad as I thought..

Steve Dillon · Dec 23, 2015

Steve Dillon said:
Bought a phosphate test kit today.. neither of my tanks that have been up the longest are no more than .36 so not as bad as I thought..

Mark75 · Dec 23, 2015

I have a hard time trusting any phosphate test.

My tank test .009 on a Hanna low range tester (reported to be the best) and I have algae.

Steve Dillon · Dec 23, 2015

I have algea at .36 but I have nitrates at 10 ppm so im going to bring them down to around 5 and bring phosphate to 0 in my bio cube but going to leave the 65 where it is..

watchguy123 · Dec 23, 2015

I think the following seem to be believed

Zero nitrates are most likely very bad

Probably, zero nitrates never truly exist because of the limit of test kits, so even if your test kit reads zero, there is still some in the water just not readable

Algae and cyano can consume available nitrates making test kits read almost zero which confuses most because they erroneously believe both are fueled by high nitrates vs available nitrates. Specific species of algae and Cyanobacteria may outcompete other algae, coral, and bacteria for nitrate consumption or can successfully thrive with little nitrates.

Very low nitrates and higher phosphates probably leads to cyano. Seems consensus is that cyano outcompete most algae at very low nitrates, they probably have mechanisms to metabolize and thrive at low nitrates somehow.

Nitrates and phosphates most likely have an ideal ratio or range in seawater. The range or ratio is probably not the redfield ratio, 16:1, in sea water but more likely a much larger ratio.

Sps tanks generally aim for nitrates between .05 ppm to 10 ppm, phosphates between .o15 and .08 ppm. Some tanks thrive with much larger numbers. This range is bantied about and may or may not be correct. Sea water has very low numbers of nitrates and phosphates but certainly has much more zooplankton and phytoplankton available than reef tanks which partially explains why coral in the ocean thrive with such low nitrates and phosphates.

If your nitrates are very low, it will limit phosphate consumption by both algae and bacteria. This is why some people dose nitrates

Dinoflagellates and diatoms fit in here someplace, but that's way over my pay grade

Remember this is a summary of what I believe current consensus is. Both my summary as well as the consensus may be in error.

Pete polyp · Dec 23, 2015

Actually diatom is caused by silica alone. This is why you usually see a bloom during cycling and once the silica is consumed they disappear. As far as the rest of your post it seems legit. The tank is going to produce nitrate and phosphate no matter what. But there will be some things that will out compete n and p over others. While the tank might be producing enough n and p cyano, algae, live rock etc can consume it at a pace that will reflect a nutrient deficiency.

CastAway · Dec 24, 2015

So, I'm trying to keep it simple, so I don't confuse myself.

I suspect I have more than adequate nutrient export; a large refugium, a GFO reactor, a DSB, and vodka dosing. So, rather than add something more, like a nitrate source, I may just reduce or limit some of the export.

For the cyano, I'll stick to the basics, increased flow, reduced light and manual removal, this instead of increased reduction of nutrients.