No Tank Lids vs Yes Tank Lids ?

BornHandy · Jan 16, 2020

Gene Ashton said:
You dose just Kalk to maintain CA ALK. Do you have separate ATO and KALK dosing? I'm thinking about the new Ecotech marine Versa pump to use on a Avast Marine Kalk stirrer. Do you have any trial/errors you could share?

Yes, separate. As for trial and errors, not really. Luckily, it's gone off without an issue. I'm seeing a steady increase in demand, so I in increase the kalk as needed. As of now, the 5 gallon ato lasts about a week, and the 5 gallon kalk lasts 3 weeks.

PhreeByrd · Jan 16, 2020

I agree with BornHandy. Trane furnaces and air handlers are in general extremely reliable, and higher humidity should not significantly affect the blower motor unless there is something wrong with the installation.

Reef Stallion · Jan 16, 2020

Reefer 425XL. Had a mesh top but it was a dust magnet. Most of the year it’s too cold here to go outside to wash down a 4 foot piece of plastic. It also makes it difficult to get my hands in the tank to stir up the sand or fix a coral etc. I like the clean look of no top and the ease of access to my tank. Not arguing with the jumper issue but I’m just sticking non-jumpers right now.

Christa50 · Jan 16, 2020

I have a glass cover. But it has enough open space for gas exchange. At the same time evaporation is minimal. Before the glass I used to fill up my ato water all the time. Liters in a view days. Now it hardly ever needs to top off. With a nano like I have par or spectrum loss is not an issue. Most lights give to much par for a nano anyway. And as mentioned before, salinity and temperature stays super stable. It's evening here so lights are out in the picture

Silent · Jan 16, 2020

Glass top.
Rather have dust on the glass than in the water. Quick wipe down one a month.
Ph stays at 8.3 so no problem with gas exchange or high CO2.
Less evaporation means less RO/DI membrane replacements.
No jumping fish.
No brainer for me.

RCS82 · Jan 16, 2020

sullyman said:
I was the first to bring it to Chicago and start the mesh tops. I had to buy a large quantity and started selling it to local hobbyists. Glass tops have to be cleaned every day, they fog up. 1/4" clear bird netting is the answer.

A week since cleaning and they not fogged up either. But for the sake of the thread, all tanks with fish I feel should have a lid to keep the fish in the tank and not on the floor.

MnFish1 · Jan 16, 2020

BornHandy said:
Humm. You shouldn't have a blower failure like that unless the humidity is massively high... I am a HVAC manager at a good sized 20 year company, and we service units in high humidity environments fairly regularly. Restaurant kitchens, gyms with indoor pools, and where I live, high humidity is a fact of life anyway.

We do see "some" additional corrosion on "some" components, but never a premature failure.

The only way elevated humidity could have an impact is if condensate was collecting on electronic components in large enough volume to create a short...

That typically only happens with incorrect blower speeds (too slow), improper duct sizing, (again, too small) or some other air restriction - like dirty filters or too many registers closed.

You may ask your HVAC guy to verify the correct fan speed, and duct size to be sure.

isnt the easiest way to get over this is to buy a dehumidifier. Where I live - its quite often that the outside humidity is 70-95 percent in the summer. I respectfully disagree that humidity causes problems - look at the people that live in AZ that say - we dont need AC as much - its a dry climate. Thus - the people that most need AC in the summer are those that have high humidity

ScubaShane · Jan 17, 2020

I use glass tops! If you add 5mils of live bacteria to your tank do you see anything? Nope! But we know the bacteria does its job. So if you have open tops and anything that's airborne like air freshener gets in the water column its going to do its job too, like cause RTN. I rinse the glass with fresh water every two weeks, no biggie!

alton · Jan 17, 2020

BornHandy said:
Humm. You shouldn't have a blower failure like that unless the humidity is massively high... I am a HVAC manager at a good sized 20 year company, and we service units in high humidity environments fairly regularly. Restaurant kitchens, gyms with indoor pools, and where I live, high humidity is a fact of life anyway.

We do see "some" additional corrosion on "some" components, but never a premature failure.

The only way elevated humidity could have an impact is if condensate was collecting on electronic components in large enough volume to create a short...

That typically only happens with incorrect blower speeds (too slow), improper duct sizing, (again, too small) or some other air restriction - like dirty filters or too many registers closed.

You may ask your HVAC guy to verify the correct fan speed, and duct size to be sure.

The first Trane unit which was made by Trane went 18 years with only replacing a contactor on the compressor out side. Never added a drop of Freon. I had a 55, then a 135, and the 200. When I remodeled I changed that unit out for the best and finest The New Trane company had to offer. Multi-speed motor, new type of freon (pure air whatever you call it) I think the biggest issue was they used all the same equipment including the cabinet from the old freon? The newer freon which I was told builds much more pressure and gets much colder I believe added to the issue, but the AC company did not agree, instead they blamed my aquarium. The list of parts they replaced was unreal from two copper coils to finally an aluminum which has held up nicely. Copper lines inside the unit, switches, the list goes on and on. Yea this system was breaking down every few months and every part had the writing "made in china". I guess when Trane got bought out they had to buy cheaper parts to pay for the buy out?

Sirlurkzalot · Jan 17, 2020

I use a mesh lid with an acrylic frame. I've lost two fish to jumpicide and want to do my best to ensure that I'm not setting any others up for failure.

BornHandy · Jan 17, 2020

alton said:
The first Trane unit which was made by Trane went 18 years with only replacing a contactor on the compressor out side. Never added a drop of Freon. I had a 55, then a 135, and the 200. When I remodeled I changed that unit out for the best and finest The New Trane company had to offer. Multi-speed motor, new type of freon (pure air whatever you call it) I think the biggest issue was they used all the same equipment including the cabinet from the old freon? The newer freon which I was told builds much more pressure and gets much colder I believe added to the issue, but the AC company did not agree, instead they blamed my aquarium. The list of parts they replaced was unreal from two copper coils to finally an aluminum which has held up nicely. Copper lines inside the unit, switches, the list goes on and on. Yea this system was breaking down every few months and every part had the writing "made in china". I guess when Trane got bought out they had to buy cheaper parts to pay for the buy out?

That stinks! I would look at the duct size requirements for your unit since you said it was an upgrade. Duct that was just perfect for a 12 or 14 SEER unit is usually too small for anything 16 SEER and up. You should be able to call a Trane tech support line to see what the minimum specs are for your system.

It might be worth knowing in the future...

BornHandy · Jan 17, 2020

MnFish1 said:
isnt the easiest way to get over this is to buy a dehumidifier. Where I live - its quite often that the outside humidity is 70-95 percent in the summer. I respectfully disagree that humidity causes problems - look at the people that live in AZ that say - we dont need AC as much - its a dry climate. Thus - the people that most need AC in the summer are those that have high humidity

Whole house dehumidifiers are pretty spendy, so yes - if it's in the budget.

ZoWhat · Jan 17, 2020

I say to avoid fish jumping out of the tank....simply turn the tank upside down where the bottom is now the top

afuel · Jan 17, 2020

alton said:
I can tell you Trane does not like humidity. Three fan motors in the lifetime of my AC system. First with a 200 gallon and then with a 300. I was adding 5 to 10 gallons of top off a week. The first two motors where covered by extended warranty, the third was $800 out of my pocket. My 310 now is less than 3 gallons a week with glass tops. I use trickle filters, so no issues with oxygen/gas exchange.

Trane doesn’t make motors they are bought from other distributors. They do make coils and compressors. Windings are sealed I doubt humidity from a fish tank would take them out. A/C units face far more pressure from areas that have consistently high outdoor humidity levels

AZMSGT · Jan 18, 2020

I have a mesh top on my tank. Living in AZ the tank gets very warm in the summer the evaporation helps in the natural cooling process. I keep a cover albeit mesh to keep jumpers safe in the tank.

One major change is lighting spectrum knowledge has changed. Open and Mesh tops allow the full spectrum to pass. A glass top or acrylic top will dirty or scratch up and impede the light. We want our corals to get all the light possible.

All the shops in our area have lids over fish but not over corals.. so finding a happy mix is with mesh.

gopherknoll · Jan 18, 2020

We've been keeping tanks for 40 years (yeah, that long) and always open top. Glass is a problem to keep really clean and cuts down light too much for sps when it's dirty. Over that time, we've only lost a couple of fish to a jump. One wrasse disappeared and one snowflake eel. A couple I caught before they were too dry and they revived when put back into the tank. But for that length of time in the hobby, I don't think that's too bad. We try hard to keep fish that are not too large or too many for the size of the tank and to give them plenty of swimming and hiding places to avoid bullying. Having said this, I'll probably have every dang one of them jump out now just to spite me. Murphy's Law.

PhreeByrd · Jan 18, 2020

MnFish1 said:
isnt the easiest way to get over this is to buy a dehumidifier. Where I live - its quite often that the outside humidity is 70-95 percent in the summer. I respectfully disagree that humidity causes problems - look at the people that live in AZ that say - we dont need AC as much - its a dry climate. Thus - the people that most need AC in the summer are those that have high humidity

It's a good question. The primary task of air conditioning is to remove humidity (latent heat). In doing so, the temperature is also reduced and the air feels more comfortable to us. People in dry climates such as AZ can leave the thermostat set a little higher and still feel comfortable because the air is already dry. On the other hand, cooling in dry climates is more difficult and energy-demanding than it is in more moist climates.

The "easiest way" is to prevent the saturation of the indoor air with humidity before it happens... i.e., keeping the water vapor in the aquarium system rather than letting it escape into the rest of the home or room. There are limits to what we can do to accomplish this, but keeping tanks covered with a non-permeable material like glass is a huge one.

Removing the humidity from the air is certainly effective, but it's also challenging to implement effectively, because whole-house dehumidifiers are big, expensive, very power-hungry, and require ductwork; portable room dehumidifiers are very limited in capacity, effectiveness, and reliability. And it's kind of like keeping crickets. Better to put a lid on their home than to go buy a couple of dozen cricket-hunting reptiles to roam your home and capture the escapees. But at least that would be a one-time expense. A dehumidifier is going to cause a major hit on your electric bill every month.

Lorenzo Angotti · Jan 18, 2020

I have a clear Perspex sheet split in two that sits just above on my USA orbit marine ICI loop pro dual led lights, I can slide them over each other to get inside the tank, also above them is a white custom made white ridged PVC foam board that is fire resistant and water proof that covers the tank and match’s with the white bottom panels of the tank. it is all contained, for me there are no hanging lights that distract your eyes, you just want to look at your reef tank, if there is any fishy smells they are kept to a minimum, the Perspex is easily wiped with paper towels and never gets dirty.