Noticing a alarming trend

[mcarroll]

many bad books too.
with that attitude. lets just make it so that only marine biologists can have reef aquariums.

its a hobby. not a profession. if it is your profession, great. to the rest of us, well i didnt take flight school to fly my drone. i still did it head first.

all the racing stuff above doesnt make sense either.

running. we ran when we were 3. we dont need a book about it.

cars. ive already passed exams on this. a book will probably not be as effective as me actually jumping in the car and practicing. otherwise we would all be dale earnhartes.

horses. (some knowledge is needed but my kids do pony rides for fun)

the difference is hobbying, and profession here. i have no interest in making my hobby a job. otherwise it would lose it's appeal.

this is some "grumpy old men" talk here

my .02

My my there is a strong aversion to reading books.

That makes my point pretty well, but lets assume not everyone is so averse to reading, and let me add…

The better point to have made might've been that there are some really good books, and they're extremely easy to recommend, read and can be inexpensive. There are short ones long ones, beginner books and technical ones. There are several really good beginner books out there!!!

The problem this grumpy old man has is that for newbies, getting meaningful information from "the crowd" on the Internet is (obviously) not so straight forward. More often than not they end up modeling the tank of the month. The problem with that is that the tank of the month doesn't teach anything but bad examples.

So without a good book they end up with a lot of confusion backing up bad examples.

That, essentially, is the recipe for the stereotype newbie experience.

 

[Russ265]

My my there is a strong aversion to reading books.

That makes my point pretty well, but lets assume not everyone is so averse to reading, and let me add…

The better point to have made might've been that there are some really good books, and they're extremely easy to recommend, read and can be inexpensive. There are short ones long ones, beginner books and technical ones. There are several really good beginner books out there!!!

The problem this grumpy old man has is that for newbies, getting meaningful information from "the crowd" on the Internet is (obviously) not so straight forward. More often than not they end up modeling the tank of the month. The problem with that is that the tank of the month doesn't teach anything but bad examples.

So without a good book they end up with a lot of confusion backing up bad examples.

That, essentially, is the recipe for the stereotype newbie experience.

ahhh maybe authors will disagree.
but i will admit. i dont even read directions putting stuff together.

 

[mcarroll]

[emoji6]
Life is not long enough to learn by experience alone. (That could be me, but I think I'm quoting somebody there.)

 

[Russ265]

[emoji6]
Life is not long enough to learn by experience alone. (That could be me, but I think I'm quoting somebody there.)

it is for reef keeping though!

 

[rayn]

Seems to be a aversion to a lot here.

The instances I mentioned make perfect sense.

You don't run the Kentucky derby without training. Sure ride a pony, not the same thing. That's like comparing salt tanks to a one gallon fish bowl and a goldfish.

 

[Bdog4u2]

I'm setting up a 150 gallon I have a 75 gallon that's over 13 years old with around 200lbs of live rock. If I put all 200lbs of rock and seed my new sand with a few cups of my old sand will the new skip the cycle process. I have a yellow tang that's over 13 years old and I really don't want to lose him but I have to take 75 down it sprung a leak. Any input will be welcomed

 

[HiddenUser]

I've been debating as to if I should respond or not to this thread...I'm probably considered one of those people who 'cheated' the cycle timeline. I had about 180lbs of dry rock and 200lbs of live sand. Once I had my tank all plumbed and filled with water I added a raw shrimp to my sump. Once I saw the ammonia spike on a Salifert test in addition to my Seachem Ammonia Alert I added a bunch (5 or 6) bottles of Dr. Tims One and Only Nitrifying Bacteria. I did leave the raw shrimp and I tested about a week later and saw 0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrite, and 10 Nitrates. This is when I pulled the slimy glob that was once a shrimp from the sump. The total amount of time the raw shrimp spent in my tank was 3 weeks. I then waited 1 week after adding Dr Tims to add fish.

I was in the process of upgrading from a 90G to my 266G so I wasn't really in a huge rush, but I had my water parameters in check where I felt comfortable with moving over my clown fish and magnificent foxface by week #3. At week #4 I tore down my 90G and moved the remaining fish over. I have been keeping tabs on the water and so far no Ammonia spikes or Nitrites.

I'm by no means an expert, I've never used Dr Tims or Biospira before my 266G build, but I figured I'd give it a try and I knew the risks which is why I added my most healthy and hardy fishy first.

I don't think the accelerated cycle process is for everyone, but if you read up on it, know the risks, and are prepared to pull the fish out if you start seeing Ammonia on tests...Go for it. I personally however would not just fill my tank, dump the bacteria in, then immediately add fish. I'd still suggest giving the bacteria a little bit of time (like a week).

In the short term it seems to be working for me. I guess we'll see if there is any adverse affects long term.

 

[robert]

Books are good - they tend to be more comprehensive and provide a more substantial basis for "thinking through" the process. Doesn't guarantee you won't come away with more than a few misconceptions.

The internet is great for filling in the gaps - more specific knowledge of more constrained problems. I love that I can watch a video on how to frag a zoa colony for instance...

Practice is where you take what you've learned from the above - and measure your understanding - work through your misconceptions and apply your reasoning...

We all rely on different mixes of learning from various sources and practice - but we probably learn most by working through problems. Thats me anyway.

Sometimes it helps to understand why things are done the way they are. The traditional cycle was developed way back when, when success was simply keeping your fish alive - corals were pretty much out of the equation. Thats no longer the case - so it makes sense (at least to me) to rethink the process with corals instead of fish as the objective.

So - if corals are the endgame - would you modify the cycle process? How would you modify it?
You are no longer are so reliant on the cycle process - building your nitrifiers and denitrifiers - corals are already both. Could over building a pyramid of bacteria be unnecessary at best and counter productive at worst?

Once you think this trough - you realize that fish are simply a way to feed your corals - Be aggressive with adding consumers and careful with adding producers...After a base of consumers (corals, clams, mens) are in, slowly add producers while watching ammonia - if it starts to build, stop and let the tank catch up - if it doesn't, dose a little prime, maybe a partial water change, maybe add another consumer...and wait...when it settles out add another producer - repeat.

Thats not hard to explain to a newbie...

 

[Jwalker814]

I'm setting up a 150 gallon I have a 75 gallon that's over 13 years old with around 200lbs of live rock. If I put all 200lbs of rock and seed my new sand with a few cups of my old sand will the new skip the cycle process. I have a yellow tang that's over 13 years old and I really don't want to lose him but I have to take 75 down it sprung a leak. Any input will be welcomed

I would say use as much sand and water from ur 75 as possible. And you shouldn't have an issue. I had literally no cycle in my 210 when I did same thing from my 75g.

 

[mcarroll]

I'm setting up a 150 gallon I have a 75 gallon that's over 13 years old with around 200lbs of live rock. If I put all 200lbs of rock and seed my new sand with a few cups of my old sand will the new skip the cycle process. I have a yellow tang that's over 13 years old and I really don't want to lose him but I have to take 75 down it sprung a leak. Any input will be welcomed

Reusing the rock (without letting it dry out ) would be sufficient.

It's for a different reason, but reusing your old water is also not a bad idea, especially so if your old water is quite different from the brand-new water. This is often the case in older tanks, but not necessarily the case. You have to be the judge.

On the other hand, keeping the sand is risky, because so many of the critters that live there are softbodied and get absolutely destroyed by moving the sand bed. It can be hard to avoid an ammonia spike if all that mess goes into the new tank.

Also, new sand is dirt cheap. Literally.

 

[robert]

"Also, new sand is dirt cheap. Literally. "

You must be paying too much for dirt....

 

[mcarroll]

Make your own dirt - compost!

 

[shoelaceike]

I'm setting up a 150 gallon I have a 75 gallon that's over 13 years old with around 200lbs of live rock. If I put all 200lbs of rock and seed my new sand with a few cups of my old sand will the new skip the cycle process. I have a yellow tang that's over 13 years old and I really don't want to lose him but I have to take 75 down it sprung a leak. Any input will be welcomed

Yes. I've done so many times.....I wouldn't even use old sand at all

 

[koifishy]

I plan on cycling for 1-2 months and even with that do it piece by piece.