Online vendor Acro frags are sure getting pricey$$$$$$$$$$

[Softhammer]

I try to do my part to deflate the prices. Swing by and frags are free.

 

[TheHarold]

This thread is interesting, it seems that the majority of people are communists and want the government to set the prices!

Kidding- but you can’t blame the sellers on this. It’s supply and demand. Capitalism. The prices are rising because consumers are happy to pay $200+ for a 1/2” stick. If reefers refused to pay that price, it would come down.

If you had a product and prople would pay $300 for it; why would you sell it for $30?

 

[hart24601]

It seems like many are going to a business model that I am not a fan of. Website is just crazy expensive, but hold live sales and sometimes ebay auctions and generally the price during those is more reasonable. Then they can say 80% off retail! I don’t like this practice though and just wish could hop on the site and get coral. I don’t’ like waiting on ebay auctions and have no desire to participate in a live sale, but it must be working.


Not every vendor is doing it, of course, but I don't want to see more head in that direction.

 

[Neo Jeo]

What’s even more absurd is the prices on Euphyllia and mushrooms. I literally used to throw them away and now they are magical and hundreds of dollars. It’s the same way it was with Acans and chalices in the 2005-2007s. A grand for an Acan? Give me a friggin break, now they are 50 bucks for the same frags. The key is to hoard all crap corals for when they become the next “trend”.

Why you throwing away Euphyllias lol?

 

[Jacked Reefer]

The thing that really irks me is that there is not a single vendor trying to fix it. You could buy a 200 dollar coral and sell the frag for 100 and still make a killer profit. But they just go along with the BIG vendors. *cough* wwc *cough*

 

[speedstar]

The thing that really irks me is that there is not a single vendor trying to fix it. You could buy a 200 dollar coral and sell the frag for 100 and still make a killer profit. But they just go along with the BIG vendors. *cough* wwc *cough*

It is up to the buyers to fix it by not buying the corals at the higher prices. It is simple economics of where the curve is and right now people are willing to pay.

 

[Chad_P]

Yeah, most vendor corals are too rich for my blood... and I typically spend freely. That's fine though... they have to make their money and I don't think any of them are getting rich off selling coral.

I strictly buy from members on here. Most of the time the prices are fair and there's also the possibility of trading. I think something like this pack is a fair price and a great start to filling out a tank once they grow.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/price-drop-cleaning-the-racks-again-wysiwyg.519301/

Agreed. This was a great pack that I grabbed and price was more than fair for some good corals.

 

[User1]

I feel like you are targeting me with this comment lol.

I’ve got way more spent on corals than I do my set up (25 gallon nano, lots of used equipment).

I’m curious if the OP complains about the rest of his life like about coral prices. It’s equivalent to cars in my opinion. You can get the shiny new car, or you can buy a used/cheaper model, the one that has cheap parts because there are a million of them. If vendors can get what they’re asking, more power to them. Getting “deals” at live sales can be a joke to when prices are only coming down to what they should be. Raising coral isn’t cheap as a living. There are lots of threads on here talking about the costs. Hell, our local store in Milwaukee said his best margin is fresh water fish and supplies, he just likes saltwater. Prices are going to get worse if the Indo ban stays. Won’t be good for the hobby.

On the car front a 65 Mustang is a Mustang with a history and lineage. Same with say a GT or a Ferrari. A designer or named coral is nothing but something someone made up. It usually doesn't look like that at depth in the wild nor does it have the made up name. It does, however, have a scientific classification and name if we are all being honest. I hear and see where you are going. However, I think some are looking at it the wrong way. Think of coral like a crop. Say corn, wheat, or rice but with a longer lead time. Technology is changing much like it has done in California with our growing of rice and water usage.

I hope we, as hobbyists, take any ban in stride and see how we can do more distributed propagation much like we do with distributed computing and keep the hobby strong. Fish, on the other hand, I agree whole hardheartedly with some of the pricing on captive raised fish. Some are challenging others not so much so the price makes at least is understandable.

But alas it sounds like I'm being a bit whiny or judgemental and by no means am I. I am all for someone taking a risk and putting themselves out there for income. That is what, at least where I live, it is all about. But back to that limit thing - I have them for a couple of my hobbies and I do my best to stay within. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't...

 

[User1]

Yeah, most vendor corals are too rich for my blood... and I typically spend freely. That's fine though... they have to make their money and I don't think any of them are getting rich off selling coral.

I strictly buy from members on here. Most of the time the prices are fair and there's also the possibility of trading. I think something like this pack is a fair price and a great start to filling out a tank once they grow.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/price-drop-cleaning-the-racks-again-wysiwyg.519301/

Good looking reef you have there. GJ.

 

[DSC reef]

The consumer is in control of what you pay. This is why the complaining and hate for vendors is laughable to me. It sounds more like people are mad that they can't get the high dollar frag they want because it cost to much so let's complain about pricing....Any vendor can do what they want and you as a person can choose not to buy. Also, we've never spent over 100 on a single coral at WWC so I advise the people knocking them to go pay a visit at their store to see what they offer. Our 75 was 70 percent WWC corals. I'm sorry but there is so much coral at reasonable prices out their, all you have to do is search. If you want the latest trendy coral then pay to play or move on, don't get salty over it. There are vendors I refuse to shop with but I'm not gonna complain because I can choose to not do buisness. I've always wanted a homewrecker but understood we could not afford it, period. I guess I should send WWC an email asking to lower the price

 

[jda]

I have no issue with a supply and demand market, but even Capitalism understands that fraud, preying and price gauging are harmful. Genuine and legit high demand items are part of it... you cannot have cheap stuff without the expensive to balance.

Fraud: Edited photos meant to deceive, giving brand names to look-alike corals to raise prices
Preying: Going after Noobies with tech, fancy things and blue-only photos. Misrepresenting real science to sell a product.
Price Gauging: Importing and chopping a $80 piece into 40 $200 frags

Some will say "caveat emptor." Ok, sure. I get this. If this is where you are at, then don't get all mad when your granny and gramps have their savings taken by what other people call a swindler - these are not Elder Abusers, but Capitalists, right? Granny and Gramps should have known better, right? Not for me... I don't care for either. Caveat Emptor seems to apply to people differently depending on which side of the coin that they are on. Also, Caveat Emptor cannot work with fraud, preying or price gauging.

 

[Brew12]

I find the entire concept of pricing to be intellectually fascinating. I believe many people, especially Americans, have a distorted view of value and costs. We are easily conditioned into how we evaluate pricing. We have been conditioned into thinking that high prices for 3/4" frags is acceptable so many people will buy them. Is that pricing fair? Hard to say. It isn't cheap to set up and run a propagation system. Lights, tanks, equipment, chemistry controls... not to mention time and effort. Then we expect free shipping, DOA replacement and sometimes replacement if the frag dies a week or 2 later. All these have to be figured into the sales price of a frag. I know I couldn't make a profit selling frags at $20 a pop. That said, I'm sure there are people who could make a profit at those levels.

So why do I think we have a distorted view of value and costs? We have been conditioned into considering it acceptable for Apple to have over a 40% profit margin. We demonize oil companies for having a 2% profit margin or Walmart for 7%. Why? How can an otherwise intelligent and informed person be okay with paying $1 for a bottle of water at a gas station but complain about paying $5 for a gallon of gas? Think about it... over 40% of bottled water comes from a tap like you have at your house for nearly free but at $1 a bottle it is $8 per gallon. The gas has to be extracted from the ground as oil, shipped, processed in a refinery, and shipped again. Do we really think gasoline should be cheaper than tap water? You wouldn't think so, but we definitely do.

 

[ca1ore]

Complaining about high coral prices seems to be the grouse-de-jour. Do people not understand the basics of a free market economy? I’ve spoken with at least one ‘high end’ seller that says he lists a few stratospherically priced frags just to establish credibility. He doesn’t actually expect anyone to buy them (makes his other corals seem cheap by comparison); and if on the chance somebody does - well, a fool and his money soon go separate ways as the old ELO song says. Folks can list frags for whatever they want, but somebody has to buy them for that otherwise the prices will come down. It’s really that simple. Blame the vendors for price gouging if you want (though accusations fail to understand what gouging really means); as far as I’m concerned, it’s the buyers that are at ‘fault’. Stop buying $$$$ frags and guess what happens ......

 

[Brew12]

Complaining about high coral prices seems to be the grouse-de-jour. Do people not understand the basics of a free market economy? I’ve spoken with at least one ‘high end’ seller that says he lists a few stratospherically priced frags just to establish credibility. He doesn’t actually expect anyone to buy them (makes his other corals seem cheap by comparison); and if on the chance somebody does - well, a fool and his money soon go separate ways as the old ELO song says. Folks can list frags for whatever they want, but somebody has to buy them for that otherwise the prices will come down. It’s really that simple. Blame the vendors for price gouging if you want (though accusations fail to understand what gouging really means); as far as I’m concerned, it’s the buyers that are at ‘fault’. Stop buying $$$$ frags and guess what happens ......

Battlecorals must have some serious street cred going on then. Although.. I may think of this as being overpriced....

 

[ca1ore]

Well, that’s overtly absurd, and noted as such in the description. But there are plenty of absurdly priced items that aren’t quite so candid about it. It’s all marketing - don’t be a victim I tell my sons all the time.

 

[theKoolAidMan]

These frags are prices so high because people in the hobby have been willing to pay that amount. WWC will stop pricing a 1 inch frag of some run of the mill acro for $200 when people stop paying $200 for it and they have a bunch of frags sitting around waiting to be sold. Vendors aren't determining the pricing of the coral in most cases. WE ARE by buying it at these prices. If the price it too high, don't buy it.

What ends up happening too often is that someone complains about the price of the coral they're looking at...then buys it anyway. Well when you do that, you signal to vendors that they're pricing that coral appropriately. You don't need that coral, period! Especially if it's at a price that you think is too high. If we all had even a bit of self control prices would drop. But we're all obsessed and willing to overpay because we MUST HAVE ALL THE CORALS NOW.

I would also suggest checking your LFS. In the past online was often cheaper than LFS due to volume, however I'm finding more often that as prices nationally online have risen, prices at many LFSs have remained more manageable. Last week I picked up 12 polyps of Nirvana Palys for $30 total which WWC, Cherry Corals, and a bunch of other popular online vendors are selling for $100 per polyp! Turns out they're easy to grow and the shops (and customer tanks) here in Buffalo are awash with them so the prices are low despite some of the big name online vendors pricing them like they're made of diamonds.

 

[HB AL]

I feel like you are targeting me with this comment lol.

I’ve got way more spent on corals than I do my set up (25 gallon nano, lots of used equipment).

I’m curious if the OP complains about the rest of his life like about coral prices. It’s equivalent to cars in my opinion. You can get the shiny new car, or you can buy a used/cheaper model, the one that has cheap parts because there are a million of them. If vendors can get what they’re asking, more power to them. Getting “deals” at live sales can be a joke to when prices are only coming down to what they should be. Raising coral isn’t cheap as a living. There are lots of threads on here talking about the costs. Hell, our local store in Milwaukee said his best margin is fresh water fish and supplies, he just likes saltwater. Prices are going to get worse if the Indo ban stays. Won’t be good for the hobby.

It wasn't a complaint, just tripping on the prices online for a 1 inch stick that just came out with a new name and some don't look like anything special. Hopefully that helps you understand my original post. You made a car comparison and I found it funny since I bought a newF150 Lariat last year, try not to take things so personal. I guess I'm just spoiled living in Socal and getting frags from the lfs's for so cheap compared to online. My current tank is filled with a cluster of different corals all grown from small frags over the last few years, except for 2 large aussie colonies I picked up on black Friday for under a hundred bucks and one in my eyes is really nice.

 

[ca1ore]

It would be interesting to take the pulse of R2R’ers to see what folks conceptual max is for a coral, and then the most they’ve actually spent. Not to be pejorative, rather to understand where folks are on this. Glad I don’t collect koi.

I’ve never spent more than $100 on a frag, usually much less than that, until recently. Spent $300 on something I thought was truly special, from somebody I believed was/is completely above board and trustworthy.

 

[jda]

I think that most R2Rers are at least somewhat educated and will not pay that much for unproven stuff - unless they are looking to get in early and farm it for money. However, there are some serious biases in this study with what I would argue are smarter folks being on R2R. The people that I worry about are the ones who have not yet gained a competent level of experience to know better.

You can buy coral at auction if you want a true-market kind of thing since most start at a dollar, so so... there are lots on eBay all the time. I know that a lot of them are Cornbred and the sizes and photos are horrible, but there are others too. Even some of the stuff on his site for $200-300 goes for a fraction of that at the auction.

On the good side (for this discussion), I have a bad feeling that we all are about to get a decade-long reprieve from these type of discussions. Economy is starting to turn for the worse and with it will be less and less disposable income to be in the hobby at all, let alone buy expensive corals. I really hope that I am wrong, but the signs that I have seen point to some pain and suffering for the non-necessary items in life.

Koi are crazy... I sold some 8-10 year old Koi when we moved last and people would pay a LOT for them. They paid for the age, size and my effort to keep the Racoons and birds from eating them. They were cutthroat and would try and raise the price if I was willing to undercut a guy that I already had a deal with. Never again for me...

 

[Ashish Patel]

I don't agree with the price especially in regards to the size of the frag. But its an addiction and they know they have us either now or later when we have the means to spend.