Online vendor Acro frags are sure getting pricey$$$$$$$$$$

[Brew12]

I think a good mental exercise for people to do is to think if they had to support their tank habit by selling frags. Assuming an average order of 6 frags, $50 for shipping, and a 20% refund rate, how much would you have to charge for each frag you could provide to cover all of your systems operating costs. Then, we need to add an ROA component. Figure out how much you have paid for everything in your system and you should try to sell enough frags to cover at least 1/10th of the total equipment costs each year.
I'm sure some people grow corals quickly enough to be able to sell frags for a lower price and meet these goals. I don't think that is very common. I feel this is why "chop shop" corals have become more common. Unfortunately, these corals also don't do nearly as well as tank raised corals.

 

[norfolkgarden]

Battlecorals must have some serious street cred going on then. Although.. I may think of this as being overpriced....

Lol, the Battlecorals customers are generally absolute fanboys who sing his praises.
He will work with you to give you an excellent selection of beautiful acros at a reasonable price.
I am looking forward to buying a grab bag from him once I can do the corals justice with excellent stability in my own tank.

There is nothing wrong with driving and taking good care of an inexpensive or older car.
Ours are 2009, 2006 and 2000.
If you want a Lamborghini then buy a Lamborghini.
But to the OP, please don't cry about not being able to afford a Lamborghini. That's just silly.

Lol, if we dropped our coral habit we all might be able to afford a Lamborghini. [emoji23]

 

[CC13]

Lol, the Battlecorals customers are generally absolute fanboys who sing his praises.
He will work with you to give you an excellent selection of beautiful acros at a reasonable price.
I am looking forward to buying a grab bag from him once I can do the corals justice with excellent stability in my own tank.

There is nothing wrong with driving and taking good care of an inexpensive or older car.
Ours are 2009, 2006 and 2000.
If you want a Lamborghini then buy a Lamborghini.
But to the OP, please don't cry about not being able to afford a Lamborghini. That's just silly.

Lol, if we dropped our coral habit we all might be able to afford a Lamborghini. [emoji23]

.... Oh but when you buy a Lamborghini you know exactly what color your getting and with what options and the car stays exactly the same. They don't film and picture a Formula 1 race car and then deliver you a Lamborghini.

Vendors have gotten very good at using color rendering and Photoshop. I'm not saying all do this, but a good majority do.

I also don't by the excuse by vendors that because of the Indo ban, this has resulted in a hobby-wide blanket increase the way it has. Some things have gotten harder to collect possibly, and the prices for those items should naturally increase. But vendors have increased the pricing on everything any anything.... even stuff that doesn't come from Indo. Its just a money grab in my opinion. The best thing any reefer can do is make connections (either on forums like this or locally), and share and swap corals and frags. One of the most fun part of this hobby is meeting new people and swapping corals.

 

[lakai]

The thing that really irks me is that there is not a single vendor trying to fix it. You could buy a 200 dollar coral and sell the frag for 100 and still make a killer profit. But they just go along with the BIG vendors. *cough* wwc *cough*

People paying $200+ for sub-inch acro stick with a fancy name, how many are justifying paying that amount thinking about how they will just grow it out and sell frags from it? How many vendors are pricing their stock with knowing this? I think that mentality adds to the "problem" if you want to call it one.

I'm all for capitalism and have done my share of paying stupid amount of money for things (think multiple $800 led lights?) in this hobby as well as outside this hobby, we all have. Anything desirable has a premium attached to it. Hype and exclusivity compound the premium. Brand and reputation is usually well deserved where a premium is justifiable for the good and discount for ones with the bad.

Would high prices still be an issue if instead of 1" you got 3-4" ?? I think most of us would be ok with that.

 

[User1]

It would be interesting to take the pulse of R2R’ers to see what folks conceptual max is for a coral, and then the most they’ve actually spent. Not to be pejorative, rather to understand where folks are on this. Glad I don’t collect koi.

I’ve never spent more than $100 on a frag, usually much less than that, until recently. Spent $300 on something I thought was truly special, from somebody I believed was/is completely above board and trustworthy.

I'll bite and throw in a few things to compare.

$10 per fresh cut frag
$15 per with growth frag
LPS / Softies vary depending on size, mouth, etc - Duncan $15 - 25 with high price being an elegance at $60 - 75

LPS and soft corals are a bit different with regards to how they are sold. Some LPS are larger but have a similar trend with naming it seems. So I have a range that I stay within. Not that I'm not really buying any corals at the moment due to a recent upgrade and rock / tank maturing window - but when I do these are some of the things I look for or stay within. Again no judging from me with regards to who buys what from where(I don't believe I've dropped any vendor names). I'm guilty with another vice/hobby with wine collecting. While I have similar limits ($15 per bottle every day cooking or drinking wine) I do collect, and drink, boutique wines that can run up to $750 a bottle on those special occasions. I'll bring a bottle or two if going out to dinner and pay the corking fee rather than pay their price.

A few times over coffee after a nice dinner looking at the wine bottles I'd say, "well, there goes my gem tang" and my brother in law would chuckle. So I get it - trust me. I do.

 

[CC13]

I'll bite and throw in a few things to compare.

$10 per fresh cut frag
$15 per with growth frag
LPS / Softies vary depending on size, mouth, etc - Duncan $15 - 25 with high price being an elegance at $60 - 75

LPS and soft corals are a bit different with regards to how they are sold. Some LPS are larger but have a similar trend with naming it seems. So I have a range that I stay within. Not that I'm not really buying any corals at the moment due to a recent upgrade and rock / tank maturing window - but when I do these are some of the things I look for or stay within. Again no judging from me with regards to who buys what from where(I don't believe I've dropped any vendor names). I'm guilty with another vice/hobby with wine collecting. While I have similar limits ($15 per bottle every day cooking or drinking wine) I do collect, and drink, boutique wines that can run up to $750 a bottle on those special occasions. I'll bring a bottle or two if going out to dinner and pay the corking fee rather than pay their price.

A few times over coffee after a nice dinner looking at the wine bottles I'd say, "well, there goes my gem tang" and my brother in law would chuckle. So I get it - trust me. I do.

I do agree with you on those prices as well for frags.

I similarly relate to wine and watch collection as I do both. The problem with this hobby compared to others I am in is that fact that I can positively identify a Rolex for example - I can take the watch to a Rolex store and have them authenticate that it is genuine, not stolen, and has been serviced. I don't mind paying a premium in this case because I am being assured that what I am buying is exactly what it is no more or less.

In this hobby, vendors buy or import colonies (and if anyone has seen wholesale pricing for Grade A SPS I can assure you its dirt cheap compared to what they frag and sell it for), but also corals and frags and the color they hold are so heavily dependent on the parameters of the tank they are in, plus the stress of shipping, that is almost used as an excuse by vendors when corals are nowhere near the color they appeared in pictures.

Its honestly a bit of a money grab right now. I personally don't care what 'name' a store has given a coral. I have bought no-name grade A SPS that colored up and grew 10x nicer than some of the 'special' ones from vendors. I have long since departed from wasting hard earned money on named corals; and I want to see them in person with my choice of color before I buy.

 

[User1]

I do agree with you on those prices as well for frags.

I similarly relate to wine and watch collection as I do both. The problem with this hobby compared to others I am in is that fact that I can positively identify a Rolex for example - I can take the watch to a Rolex store and have them authenticate that it is genuine, not stolen, and has been serviced. I don't mind paying a premium in this case because I am being assured that what I am buying is exactly what it is no more or less.

In this hobby, vendors buy or import colonies (and if anyone has seen wholesale pricing for Grade A SPS I can assure you its dirt cheap compared to what they frag and sell it for), but also corals and frags and the color they hold are so heavily dependent on the parameters of the tank they are in, plus the stress of shipping, that is almost used as an excuse by vendors when corals are nowhere near the color they appeared in pictures.

Its honestly a bit of a money grab right now. I personally don't care what 'name' a store has given a coral. I have bought no-name grade A SPS that colored up and grew 10x nicer than some of the 'special' ones from vendors. I have long since departed from wasting hard earned money on named corals; and I want to see them in person with my choice of color before I buy.

That is actually a good analogy / example. Interesting enough I always wanted a Submariner. My better half returned home with one for me one time as a gift. Beautiful all around with exceptional quality. However, with two in college at the time I asked if we could return it and buy something different. She agreed and the store amazingly enough worked with us to find something I was comfortable with. Win win for everyone.

Good example there CC13.

 

[ShawnSaucier]

Just did some shopping this past week and a bit shocked again at some of the prices. Having started in the hobby in 2001, I have to say if coral was a stock, it would have blown Apple, Google ect away. It really is crazy how expensive a nubbin with 10 polyps to show some extension, freshly cut named “I Can’t Believe It’s Not Butter, Kids College Fund, Endgame Hallucination, blah blah blah” go for.
I understand inflation and issues with bans also the costs with farming. But I also feel that some of these people are missing out on some of the beautiful bread and butter corals we used to be able to get. The stores (locally) seem to have less diversity in stock, sometimes even low stock due to the fact that they are farming slow growing expensive pieces.
Beyond all of that, I have yet to see large colonies grown from these nubs that look like the original pics. I feel that when I’m reading an article from some of the legends in the hobby, most of their pieces are 10/15/20 years old and traded or given to them through friends. When you are able to sustain pieces for that amount of time, that’s why they look how they do.

 

[CC13]

That is actually a good analogy / example. Interesting enough I always wanted a Submariner. My better half returned home with one for me one time as a gift. Beautiful all around with exceptional quality. However, with two in college at the time I asked if we could return it and buy something different. She agreed and the store amazingly enough worked with us to find something I was comfortable with. Win win for everyone.

Good example there CC13.

I have no problem paying a premium for something, even in this hobby but when I do, I expect a premium product. Taking a bottle of water, cutting it down 5 times, renaming it and then charging 10x - 50x the original price to consumers is outrageous. You can use the same analogy to almost any other hobby or consumer good and people would be so outraged there is no way they would pay for that item. I have no idea why people don't stand their ground with these 'designer' corals which are no more than a name-tag.

and..... Submariner is a really nice watch. Not my favorite, but definitely nice for sure lol.

 

[Jacked Reefer]

Would high prices still be an issue if instead of 1" you got 3-4" ?? I think most of us would be ok with that.

It takes a lot more work to grow an Acro 3 to 4 inches than it does one inch lol. I get these people are just trying to get the most they can from the stock they have. But they could charge even half as much and still make a crazy profit

 

[vetteguy53081]

I just spent some time browsing various vendors wysiwyg Acro frags and maybe it’s just me but man where they expensive for a 1 to 2 inch frag. Even ones that didn’t look like anything special were north of a Benjamin, and a lot of them were new corals with new names. Just wondering did I miss something? None were any of the big name ones like the home wrecker, WD, etc. Just tripping on the prices for a small stick. Not long ago the prices were nowhere near what they are now. Gonna stick with my lfs’s for know.

Just this past weekend, I viewed 4 auctions and thought " HUH" when I saw the prices. One vendor in particular , I have shopped from 6 or more years has doubled and im less than impressed when I see 25% off but the price double than normal...so there is in essence no 25% discount.
I did and will pass on any purchases until I see fair prices. Actually have been getting some Nice stuff locally and tank raised at great sizes and prices.

 

[tautog83]

The fact some of the more popular vendors dont even offer a $40 to $60 frag of sps anymore is sad . 2 branches of pink lemonade for 75? $70 red planet frags?? I mean when you start to charge more than getting a chunk directly from ora you're getting crazy . Mushrooms I think are even worse, 35 or 40 a polyp? . I've said it in a couple other posts as well it's about the hype .

 

[imarkspeed]

This thread cracks me up! Prices have always been high for years. Most of you seem to be new im guessing. All the cheap frags now used to be well over 200 when they first came out probably just saying . I pay top price because its gonna be nice. Just like a car or any other hobby. You can go the cheap route or go the expensive way. Not everything is for everyone unless you wanna spend i love high end rare stuff most dont have. I'll pay for it and i sure aint rich

 

[Jonreefer]

This thread cracks me up! Prices have always been high for years. Most of you seem to be new im guessing. All the cheap frags now used to be well over 200 when they first came out probably just saying . I pay top price because its gonna be nice. Just like a car or any other hobby. You can go the cheap route or go the expensive way. Not everything is for everyone unless you wanna spend i love high end rare stuff most dont have. I'll pay for it and i sure aint rich

WWC loves you and the mentality.

 

[emilios_reeftank]

dude the prices for coral are ridiculous. I have a huge piece of Frogspawn I've been raising for years now and is as big as a small football, and I would sell it to someone for like $70. lol thats like one acro frag on any website haha

 

[emilios_reeftank]

@Jonreefer I see there's another Pittsburgh reefer in the chat lol

 

[imarkspeed]

dude the prices for coral are ridiculous. I have a huge piece of Frogspawn I've been raising for years now and is as big as a small football, and I would sell it to someone for like $70. lol thats like one acro frag on any website haha

Lol

 

[imarkspeed]

WWC loves you and the mentality.

Lol maybe but they do hook me up so i cant complain. Nice guys

 

[emilios_reeftank]

Really I think the major problem is the shipping. I understand that they really cant do anything about the shipping, but if they could find a way to drop it to $15 it would totally be worth it. I don't mind paying the $50 - $75 for a acro or coral at a fish store, but I just feel like its not worth it online because they get stressed during shipping and usually don't make it in the tank.

 

[imarkspeed]

Really I think the major problem is the shipping. I understand that they really cant do anything about the shipping, but if they could find a way to drop it to $15 it would totally be worth it. I don't mind paying the $50 - $75 for a acro or coral at a fish store, but I just feel like its not worth it online because they get stressed during shipping and usually don't make it in the tank.

Yes this is another problem so i buy more then one coral to make up for shipping