Poll: How much more would you pay for quarantined fish?

  • Thread starter Thread starter PDR
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max amount you would be willing to pay for a full qt service

  • $10-$20

    Votes: 33 6.7%
  • $20-$50

    Votes: 55 11.2%
  • $50-$100

    Votes: 22 4.5%
  • $100-$150

    Votes: 14 2.9%
  • $150+

    Votes: 3 0.6%
  • Other: Percentage based - comment in thread

    Votes: 8 1.6%
  • + 5%-10% cost of the fish

    Votes: 71 14.5%
  • + 20%-50% cost of the fish

    Votes: 156 31.8%
  • + 50%-100% cost of the fish

    Votes: 44 9.0%
  • + 100%-200% cost of the fish

    Votes: 11 2.2%
  • 200%+

    Votes: 3 0.6%
  • None: I won't pay extra for QT

    Votes: 71 14.5%

  • Total voters
    491
I would pay a 100% premium for all livestock......IF.......it were accompanied by a warrantee to replace all the livestock in my tank if they are hit by disease. I don't really think anyone would adopt this policy b/c it would be impossible to prove a tank disaster was the result of adding new livestock.
 
I can’t believe the results of this poll. Quarantining fish properly is no fun at all. It is hard to do well. And takes up a lot of time and extra space. I’m guessing the votes that say anything less than a 50% markup are not aware of what it takes to QT a fish, and they have not logistically thought it through. If you are a fish store and you get fish weekly, you would need as many tanks as you have now, times the number of weeks you would quarantine depending on method (if you still wanted fish weekly). If you TTM all new fish, you would need to hire more people just to manage that. I would personally pay 200% or more for everything to be pristine. Fish, coral, inverts...that fallow period is miserable! The problem is you ALREADY have people selling corals that specifically advertise as quarantined. I pressed my luck with a “top” aquatics store in Orlando when they advertised as quarantined, put in my DT and boom, aptasia. Luckily aptasia is easy. And yes I know I am an idiot for believing them. But my point is, I would pay at least 200% markup for something clean and perfect.....but that would imply that businesses would be honest...and I don’t see that happening ever.
 
I can’t believe the results of this poll. Quarantining fish properly is no fun at all. It is hard to do well. And takes up a lot of time and extra space. I’m guessing the votes that say anything less than a 50% markup are not aware of what it takes to QT a fish, and they have not logistically thought it through. If you are a fish store and you get fish weekly, you would need as many tanks as you have now, times the number of weeks you would quarantine depending on method (if you still wanted fish weekly). If you TTM all new fish, you would need to hire more people just to manage that. I would personally pay 200% or more for everything to be pristine. Fish, coral, inverts...that fallow period is miserable! The problem is you ALREADY have people selling corals that specifically advertise as quarantined. I pressed my luck with a “top” aquatics store in Orlando when they advertised as quarantined, put in my DT and boom, aptasia. Luckily aptasia is easy. And yes I know I am an idiot for believing them. But my point is, I would pay at least 200% markup for something clean and perfect.....but that would imply that businesses would be honest...and I don’t see that happening ever.

I agree with you. I would pay a premium to be ensured that all fish, inverts and corals are 100% free of pests.

Unfortunately we are in the vast ministry of hobbiests willing to pay a premium for the security and service of ensuring 100% healthy and pest free inhabitants.
 
Just thought about this. If the business model of quarantined fish was done we can assume that there would never be as many fish in stock as in most fish stores. Ergo, fish purchases on the suppliers end would be much fewer and as the majority of the “buy in bulk” bargain is eliminated, so too is the profit margin. I would imagine the “healthy fish already quarantined” angle would only attract people, changing revenue but not necessary drastically change income.
 
I would buy properly quarantined fish even at twice the price. I still would not place right into DT. My current qt practice is 8-12 weeks. I would not re-medicate fish from a trusted source like HF- but would observe for 6-8 weeks prior to DT placement. All of my current fish are from DD. Most have been healthy and make it through qt, but my last order included a fish that was dead on the sixth day from marine velvet. Had to raise copper levels quickly and all the rest made it-including a little mystery wrasse! We had to evacuate from Wilmington, NC due to hurricane Flo. Lost power for 4 days. Returned to our house after being gone 8 days- there was no way to get into Wilmington. It was an island! I expected my 20 gal qt would be a smelly pot of rancid gumbo- but they were all alive and well!
 
I may be wrong ... but even if you purchase a "fully quarantined" fish ... couldn't the mere stressful process of netting and transporting it to your tank spark a resurgence of any latent diseases?
I'm for quarantining at my house with a 20-40 second transfer into the display tank.
 
I may be wrong ... but even if you purchase a "fully quarantined" fish ... couldn't the mere stressful process of netting and transporting it to your tank spark a resurgence of any latent diseases?
I'm for quarantining at my house with a 20-40 second transfer into the display tank.

While it's possible for things to slip by, if a fish is properly quarantined, there shouldn't be any latent disease that would be able to reappear.
 
I would pay 50% to 100% more depending on the price and hardiness of the fish.
 
One store here in Jersey does QT. TSM Corals.... They follow a strict protocol and won't sell you a fish for at least 3-4 weeks. They treat each and every fish with a strict regiment of therapeutic medicines. I have never introduced a parasite into my system from this retailer. Also if you do loose a fish from them they replace it no questions asked. On the other hand, other stores in NJ do not QT their fish. I just paid a stiff price for buying from them and 75 percent of my fish died within 2 weeks from Ich, Velvet, and more. These stores sell the fish cheap, and it's buyer beware.
 
I'm a Happy Humblefish customer. I have QT'd my fist with success in the past (all 12 are still alive after a year) but I always wanted a mystery wrasse--and I didn't trust myself to QT it. Seemed tricky. So I had Humblefish do it, great success and I love my Wrasse! So much that I ordered a Wartskin Angler for my 20 gallon species tank next...so glad that this service exists and here's to hoping it is very successful!

As someone who is currently setting up this kind of business, I’d like to explain the challenges of quarantining en masse vs. as a hobbyist:

As a hobbyist, I would QT 2-3 fish at a time (usually in a 10 gal). The process was pretty straight forward: Treat for ich/velvet using copper or Chloroquine, deworm with prazi and then move the fish to a larger (29 gallon) observation tank to ensure nothing got missed. If I saw white stringy poo (intestinal worms) or a bacterial infection arose, I could deal with it in the 29 gal. Like you, I wasn’t always successful with QT, but I did pretty well. Worst case scenario... some weird Typhoid Mary disease wiped out everything in QT, I would bleach/sterilize everything and start over with a new batch of fish. But the bottom line is my fish in the DT were always protected from the unknown.

However, when you QT 50-60 fish at a time (like I have been doing) you are much more likely to encounter the following:
  1. Aggressive gram negative bacterial infections, which spread from fish to fish. I recently lost 60% of a wholesale order to this. The growths started out looking like Lymphocystis, but gram staining later confirmed gram negative bacteria. Even worse, the growths spread over the fishes’ internal organs (via necropsy) which explained why just dosing the water with antibiotics didn’t halt the fish deaths.
  2. I have been encountering praziquantel resistant strains of monogeneans (flukes) and turbellarians (black ich). I never saw this before as a hobbyist. When this happens, I have to treat the entire QT with either hyposalinity or formalin in order to 100% eradicate.
  3. I currently am using 8-40 breeders and 4-29 gallon aquariums as quarantine tanks. As bacteria spreads & biofilm forms in these QTs, any medications (except copper) I dose become less & less effective due to biodegradation. So periodically I have to completely break down and sterilize each & every QT in order to hit the reset button. (I am currently experimenting with just dosing chlorine in order to accomplish this.) But the cost of reseeding these QTs with nitrifying bacteria is just another expense associated with QTing on a commercial level.
  4. All of the medications I use are pharmaceutical grade vs. what some aquarium company sells. It’s a lot more expensive to medicate this way, but I can only trust what I know has been tested to be 99% pure or better.
  5. No words can express my disgust with the sorry state of livestock wholesalers and the aquarium industry as a whole right now. It’s very difficult to QT on a commercial level when you have such a bad starting point to work from.
As much as I advocate using medications, I do realize they are inherently bad for the fish. Every med you dose into the water your fish’s liver & kidneys has to filter + there are always side effects. So, I had hoped to only use minimal medications on my fish and rely upon observation to determine if additional treatment was required. This approach worked for me in the beginning, but after my recent bout with gram negative bacteria I have come to realize I need to get a lot more aggressive with medicating + food soaking medications. As a MB recently told me, everything that goes wrong on the outside with these fish also goes wrong on the inside. o_O

So, I will keep soldering on, trying to improve my techniques and get ahead of this learning curve. FWIW; this has never been about making money for me. This is about stopping all this indiscriminate loss of fish life, and putting pressure on the industry as a whole to do the same. Wish me luck. ;)
 
If someone could manage it, this would be great! I would pay extra for sure.
 
Would depend on the fish for me, if its a fish that doesn’t handle QT well i would pay a higher markup.
 
I would pay more! If my fish make it through QT they live LONG happy lives. Humble fish how do I order fish from you!

Searching now!
 
I have leaned on humble for advice since the first day I joined this forum. I ordered fish from him a while back to add to my tank that came in perfect shape. I put them in the tank with 100% survival and beautiful fish to date for which I gladly paid for and thought he was too cheap for the service he offered and the lack of expense on my part to do the same thing [emoji106]

I have QT tanks and know the cost and time [emoji6]
 
I would be willing to pay a premium for hard to keep or expert lvl fish being qted. Especially since they would be eating and likely an instant success story. Easier to keep/less expensive fish it’s harder for me to justify.
 
One store here in Jersey does QT. TSM Corals.... They follow a strict protocol and won't sell you a fish for at least 3-4 weeks. They treat each and every fish with a strict regiment of therapeutic medicines. I have never introduced a parasite into my system from this retailer. Also if you do loose a fish from them they replace it no questions asked. On the other hand, other stores in NJ do not QT their fish. I just paid a stiff price for buying from them and 75 percent of my fish died within 2 weeks from Ich, Velvet, and more. These stores sell the fish cheap, and it's buyer beware.
I have been looking at their site over the last week. Very interested!
 
I think we need to step out of the box.
Quarantining fish is not the future.
The future of fish buying will be aquaculture fish. Like most frags we buy today have never seen the ocean.
Most fish in the future will come from a tank. We already use dry rock so a lot of the
Bad is eliminated. So if everyone uses dry rock, frags from a clean system, and tank raised fish a lot of the problems we have today will not exist.
 
I think we need to step out of the box.
Quarantining fish is not the future.
The future of fish buying will be aquaculture fish. Like most frags we buy today have never seen the ocean.
Most fish in the future will come from a tank. We already use dry rock so a lot of the
Bad is eliminated. So if everyone uses dry rock, frags from a clean system, and tank raised fish a lot of the problems we have today will not exist.

To eliminate just ectoparasites, viruses and bacteria is probably impossible, would require a complete change in our supply chain. Every exporter, importer, lfs and hobbyists would have to treat, and eliminate them. Then any F1 breeding stock would have to quarantined. This step would repeat whenever a new species is added or breeding stock is added to the gene pool to suppress over breeding. And all is for naught as soon as a single wild fish is traded to a LFS. The supply chain is now exposed again.

Larger scale but took decades to remove rinderpest from livestock, but that had an economic impact greater than the entire aquarium hobby combined.
 
To eliminate just ectoparasites, viruses and bacteria is probably impossible, would require a complete change in our supply chain. Every exporter, importer, lfs and hobbyists would have to treat, and eliminate them. Then any F1 breeding stock would have to quarantined. This step would repeat whenever a new species is added or breeding stock is added to the gene pool to suppress over breeding. And all is for naught as soon as a single wild fish is traded to a LFS. The supply chain is now exposed again.

Larger scale but took decades to remove rinderpest from livestock, but that had an econo impact greater than the entire aquarium hobby combined.


There will be no exporters/ importer
At the beginning it would be a choice. As a consumer I would choose to only buy aquaculture fish/ frags and dry rock.

The same way we choose our phones and computers I buy Apple because I want a closed iOS. I don’t want to worry about virus and hacks. So I use Apple products in a closed environment. Other people can use open source and that’s their choice. I like that everything works right out the box with Apple.
If given the choice I would only buy aquaculture fish/corals.
I would like a closed aquarium system where you don’t introduce virus and pest.

Every part of this hobby has evolved.
The way we feed our fish ( we use human grade food to feed our tank)how we light the tank (led game changer).
How we monitor the water quality ( triton)
Controllers give you access to your tanks info from anywhere in the world.
The only thing that hasn’t changed in the last 40 years is how we get our fish!!
Every other part of the hobby has evolved and is always changing for the better.
This also needs to change. Putting fish on a plane just doesn’t make sense in the world we live in.
 
There will be no exporters/ importer
At the beginning it would be a choice. As a consumer I would choose to only buy aquaculture fish/ frags and dry rock.

The same way we choose our phones and computers I buy Apple because I want a closed iOS. I don’t want to worry about virus and hacks. So I use Apple products in a closed environment. Other people can use open source and that’s their choice. I like that everything works right out the box with Apple.
If given the choice I would only buy aquaculture fish/corals.
I would like a closed aquarium system where you don’t introduce virus and pest.

Every part of this hobby has evolved.
The way we feed our fish ( we use human grade food to feed our tank)how we light the tank (led game changer).
How we monitor the water quality ( triton)
Controllers give you access to your tanks info from anywhere in the world.
The only thing that hasn’t changed in the last 40 years is how we get our fish!!
Every other part of the hobby has evolved and is always changing for the better.
This also needs to change. Putting fish on a plane just doesn’t make sense in the world we live in.

The issue is not you buying your only Aquacultured fish but the nature of the trade itself. Take a well intended wholesaler deals in both Aquacultured fish and wild caught in two different systems. And a teenager that just starts working there uses a net for the wild caught fish on the Aquacultured system infecting the whole system of naive fish.

Corals are even more tricky not many have facilities to hold corals for the 76 day fallow period for fish ectoparasites.

As far as viruses unless vaccination becomes more prevalent(only place i know that it is is Israeli koi farms) i do not foresee a way to remove these from the trade.

Luckily KHV is the only virus that afflicts fish with such a high mortality rate, at least that i am aware of.
 

IF YOU HAD TO TAKE A REEFING EXAM, WOULD YOU PASS?

  • Yes!

    Votes: 32 45.7%
  • Not yet, but I have one that I want to buy in mind!

    Votes: 9 12.9%
  • No.

    Votes: 26 37.1%
  • Other (please explain).

    Votes: 3 4.3%
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