Possible velvet outbreak

Mathew0 · Jun 19, 2024

I just did a 40-50% water change to get some Blue out and for any ammonia. There still seems to be some fin rot. The scopas didn’t make it. I didn’t see anything on the skin to indicate flukes. I dipped it in fw just to see if anything would let go. It’s not definitive as the parasites probably abandoned it after it died. Here’s a pic of the fin rot on it:

The foxface now has a lump forward of the tail fin about mid body (top-to-bottom). It’s hard to photograph b/c the water is still very blue.
The copper was at 2.3 before adding the Blue and I mixed in enough copper in the new water to keep close to that. I’m adding Metroplex with Focus to the food. I haven’t given any Prazi yet. Not sure if I should without more definitive evidence of flukes.
I really appreciate all the help and the ongoing advice.

Jay Hemdal · Jun 19, 2024

Mathew0 said:
I just did a 40-50% water change to get some Blue out and for any ammonia. There still seems to be some fin rot. The scopas didn’t make it. I didn’t see anything on the skin to indicate flukes. I dipped it in fw just to see if anything would let go. It’s not definitive as the parasites probably abandoned it after it died. Here’s a pic of the fin rot on it:

The foxface now has a lump forward of the tail fin about mid body (top-to-bottom). It’s hard to photograph b/c the water is still very blue.
The copper was at 2.3 before adding the Blue and I mixed in enough copper in the new water to keep close to that. I’m adding Metroplex with Focus to the food. I haven’t given any Prazi yet. Not sure if I should without more definitive evidence of flukes.
I really appreciate all the help and the ongoing advice.

While "fin rot" is a term that is often used, it is actually just a symptom. When I see angular (sharp) bits of missing fins only on the trailing edges of the fins, it almost 100% means there was some mechanical damage that started the issue. In most cases, the start is some tankmate aggression - fish biting another fish's fins ALWAYS hit the trailing edges, and that is what I see here. Once the original damage is done, then bacterial fin rot can come into play. You may never see the actual aggression - fish are sly and will stop attacking when you are in the room watching them. Also, this damage will happen in a split second, so even using the trick of filming the fish when you are not in the room may not always catch the culprit. I watch for "near misses" and avoidance - the fish with the damaged fins will try to stay away from the culprit and the culprit may just make "passes" that nearly miss, but that needs to be taken seriously.

That said, there are other issues going on in this tank. What can happen is that a fish becomes weakened due to some disease and the other fish (and rarely, some invertebrates) will take advantage and bite their fins.

Jay

Mathew0 · Jun 19, 2024

Ok, thank you. At least that’s explainable. I’m sure the big trigger is acting out.

Do you have any advice about the lump under the skin of the foxface?

I’m planning to do at least another week of copper. I’d like to get more Blue out so I can see how the fish are doing. I’m thinking of doing another 40-50% water change Friday or Saturday.

Mathew0 · Jul 2, 2024

Update:
The coral beauty died 6 days ago. There was no sign of illness or ‘fin rot’. Oddly, its eyes still looked clear, too.
This is the 5th day since I did a 40% water change to start reducing the copper. Today I saw the Foxface kinda wedged between 2 pieces of pvc I have in There for hiding places. I moved the pvc to get him out, and he’s got pretty severe popeye in one eye and to a much lesser degree in the other eye. He also still has that strange white spot, pictures below. It seems like issues in both eyes tends to be infection rather than injury, so I put him in a FW dip for 5 mins to see if any flukes came off; there wasn’t anything in the dish when I took him out. While hardly conclusive, the other fish aren’t showing signs of flukes either.
The ammonia badge is teal-ish. It started yellow, and I put that Blue in there. I don’t know if the teal is due to ammonia or just yellow+blue=green.
I gave a full 14 days off metro+Focus in the food. That last dose was Thursday’s feeding.
Bad side:

Not so bad side:

He is definitely nearly blind at this point.
#fishmedics#fishmedics

Jay Hemdal · Jul 3, 2024

Mathew0 said:
Update:
The coral beauty died 6 days ago. There was no sign of illness or ‘fin rot’. Oddly, its eyes still looked clear, too.
This is the 5th day since I did a 40% water change to start reducing the copper. Today I saw the Foxface kinda wedged between 2 pieces of pvc I have in There for hiding places. I moved the pvc to get him out, and he’s got pretty severe popeye in one eye and to a much lesser degree in the other eye. He also still has that strange white spot, pictures below. It seems like issues in both eyes tends to be infection rather than injury, so I put him in a FW dip for 5 mins to see if any flukes came off; there wasn’t anything in the dish when I took him out. While hardly conclusive, the other fish aren’t showing signs of flukes either.
The ammonia badge is teal-ish. It started yellow, and I put that Blue in there. I don’t know if the teal is due to ammonia or just yellow+blue=green.
I gave a full 14 days off metro+Focus in the food. That last dose was Thursday’s feeding.
Bad side:

Not so bad side:

He is definitely nearly blind at this point.
#fishmedics#fishmedics

Sorry - I went back and scanned this thread. As I had said, there seems to be multiple issues here.

What fish remain other than the foxface?
Are they showing any symptoms?

I didn’t see any videos of the fish. A clear video can sometimes help with diagnosis.

Metro + Focus is so commonly used, but is almost always done incorrectly - the metro must be 1% by weight in the total food mix. If you aren’t measuring it, your dose will be wrong. Also, metro in food is used to treat internal flagellates, and I don’t see any evidence of those here.

Jay

Mathew0 · Jul 3, 2024

I can’t figure out how to post a video here from my phone. I’ll upload something to YouTube and link it here tonight after work.
The remaining fish are:
Picasso trigger -> 5-6 inches
Orange stripe trigger -> 4-5 inches
Semicircle Angel (jv) -> 4-5 inches
PJ Cardinal pair -> full size

I don’t see any signs on them, but I’m no expert. The water is still blue. The angel still has those whitish patches like before, but far less severe. Barely noticeable except that I know to look for them.
You can see that white spot on the foxface in front of his spot. That’s been there for about 7-10 days. It’s not as bad as it was when I first mentioned it.
As for the Metro, the directions say 1 measure per tablespoon. I give about 1.5 Tbls, so I was using 2 measures each of Metro and Focus. I know that wouldn’t effect flukes, but I figured boosting immunity thru antibiotics would help against any random internal infection that I wouldn’t be able to see. They’re dying from something, and it doesn’t seem to be the initial ich/velvet that took the Emporer. I’m just trying whatever measures I can. I can certainly run Prazi despite the lack of visible ‘ovoids’ after the FW dip.

Thank you for all your help and advice.

Mathew0 · Jul 3, 2024

Here’s a link to the video. I uploaded it on YouTube
#f#fishmedics

ISpeakForTheSeas · Jul 3, 2024

Mathew0 said:
Here’s a link to the video. I uploaded it on YouTube
#f#fishmedics

The video is set to private.

Mathew0 · Jul 3, 2024

It is fixed.

Jay Hemdal · Jul 3, 2024

Mathew0 said:
I can’t figure out how to post a video here from my phone. I’ll upload something to YouTube and link it here tonight after work.
The remaining fish are:
Picasso trigger -> 5-6 inches
Orange stripe trigger -> 4-5 inches
Semicircle Angel (jv) -> 4-5 inches
PJ Cardinal pair -> full size

I don’t see any signs on them, but I’m no expert. The water is still blue. The angel still has those whitish patches like before, but far less severe. Barely noticeable except that I know to look for them.
You can see that white spot on the foxface in front of his spot. That’s been there for about 7-10 days. It’s not as bad as it was when I first mentioned it.
As for the Metro, the directions say 1 measure per tablespoon. I give about 1.5 Tbls, so I was using 2 measures each of Metro and Focus. I know that wouldn’t effect flukes, but I figured boosting immunity thru antibiotics would help against any random internal infection that I wouldn’t be able to see. They’re dying from something, and it doesn’t seem to be the initial ich/velvet that took the Emporer. I’m just trying whatever measures I can. I can certainly run Prazi despite the lack of visible ‘ovoids’ after the FW dip.

Thank you for all your help and advice.

The water looks hazy and blue, do you know why? I only saw a brief look, but the ammonia badge seems to be registering some ammonia, do you have a second way of testing for that?

The right eye of the foxface is from mechanical damage, it must have smacked into something. I could see it’s left eye clearly.

I couldn’t see either trigger, but the semicirculatus angel looks pretty good.

Is the orange lined trigger an undulatus? If so, those are really mean and likely won’t be compatible with your other fish as time goes on.

Mathew0 · Jul 3, 2024

The hazy blue is the remains of the methylene Blue. The ammonia badge seems greenish, but I don’t know if that’s from ammonia or from the effects of the methylene.
Both triggers were hiding. I tried to zoom in, but it just ruined the picture quality. I believe the orange line is the same as undulatus.
The one eye is severely popped. The other is only about 1/2 as bad.

Jay Hemdal · Jul 4, 2024

Mathew0 said:
The hazy blue is the remains of the methylene Blue. The ammonia badge seems greenish, but I don’t know if that’s from ammonia or from the effects of the methylene.
Both triggers were hiding. I tried to zoom in, but it just ruined the picture quality. I believe the orange line is the same as undulatus.
The one eye is severely popped. The other is only about 1/2 as bad.

think the first step is to have a secondary ammonia test done - maybe your store can do that for you?

Mathew0 · Jul 4, 2024

The LFS uses a Hanna for ammonia. Will that work with the blue tint?

Jay Hemdal · Jul 4, 2024

Mathew0 said:
The LFS uses a Hanna for ammonia. Will that work with the blue tint?

Sorry, I don’t know the reagent used in a Hanna ammonia test. If it is the standard salicylate ammonia test, a slight blue color won’t affect the test.