Pressure on False Claim Products

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

And I got scalded when I said this in my Alkalinity thread months ago.
Didn’t even give me the proper respect of having mentioned why reefers who buy these products are having issues due to false claiming products in the reefing hobby

I'm sorry you felt disrespected, but the picture is from a thread that reef2reef management closed for a reason and I'm not going to reopen it here. I'll just say that I found many of the things you wrote there to be too confusing for me to understand, and the literal sentences you wrote in the first paragraph of the picture you posted do not make sense to me.

If the second paragraph is related to products like Boost pH+ and Aquavitro Balance, then I agree, one needs to understand the alk effect.

 

[hexcolor reef]

If the second paragraph is related to products like Boost pH+ and Aquavitro Balance, then I agree, one needs to understand the alk effect.

that’s all I intended to do was share what you are sharing now. Yes I could’ve explained better perhaps.

I’m not here to ruin your thread,
Perhaps we could’ve both tackled this discussion months ago to help the reefing community.

 

[rtparty]

Sure it does. You don't earn a get out of jail free card because *some* of your products don't break the rules.

There isn’t a company in existence then that you can buy anything from. Have fun

 

[jda]

To me, the world and life is not about not making mistakes, it is about what you do once you make them. You get props for fixing your issues, having explanations for how it will not happen again (not be confused with excuses, which are different than explanations) and taking full responsibility. There are companies who own, accpet and fix their mistakes... these are fine since none of us are any better.

 

[GARRIGA]

Perhaps why an educated consumer is the best consumer and consumer beware isn't a passive suggestion.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

A smart guy with a lot of experience whom I trust once wrote:


This is spot on, IMO. Anybody who thinks otherwise should change their calculations. I had TM or some other EU company get quite mad when I posted this and they said that they do a lot of research and calculations, but still did not give any evidence that they had a lab where they checked anything out.

You know, in retrospect, I should have qualified that with “in the US”. I haven’t heard that there are actual aquarium product labs in the EU, but maybe? Also, I should have quantified what a “lab” is. I’m sure that Seachem has some lab equipment for example. What I meant was “research lab”.

Jay

 

[Nonya]

I think what this comes down to is intent. Does the company have valid calculations on which to base its marketing claims? Or perhaps actual repeatable measurements they took? If not, then you have to wonder why they made the claims.

 

[Uncle99]

Aren’t some of these companies R2R sponsers?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Aren’t some of these companies R2R sponsers?

None of the manufacturers are (Brightwell, Seachem or ChemiPure), but some resellers are and I posted a question in two of their sponsor forums (Premium Aquatics and Saltwateraquariums).

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Oh, wait, ChemiPure is. I'll post my question in their essentially inactive forum.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

ChemiPure has not been online since September, but I posted in their forum:

Chemi-pure

www.reef2reef.com

 

[MnFish1]

There seems to be a small number of people who want to prove or disprove something a major reefing company says. Often times - the proof posted is not complete - the one exception - in my opinion being vibrant. I think it's extremely important that if products are to be tested - post the results in the experimental forum - so that people can discuss/analyze critique/complement the discussion.

 

[Pyrogens]

Following along, as this has always intrigued me. Thanks for doing the leg work Randy.

 

[Court_Appointed_Hypeman]

There seems to be a small number of people who want to prove or disprove something a major reefing company says. Often times - the proof posted is not complete - the one exception - in my opinion being vibrant. I think it's extremely important that if products are to be tested - post the results in the experimental forum - so that people can discuss/analyze critique/complement the discussion.

You have to also consider PH boosting products that claim not to add alkalinity in this.

 

[Nonya]

There seems to be a small number of people who want to prove or disprove something a major reefing company says. Often times - the proof posted is not complete - the one exception - in my opinion being vibrant. I think it's extremely important that if products are to be tested - post the results in the experimental forum - so that people can discuss/analyze critique/complement the discussion.

Amazon sells it with this statement from UCI:

• Vibrant is safe with all fish, corals and invertebrates.
• For Fish Only Saltwater Aquariums Vibrant is a new revolutionary liquid aquarium cleaner.

How can the seller make both statements that appear to conflict with each other? 8% of the reviews on Amazon say that it kills corals, inverts and fish.

Randy, has anyone from UCI ever responded to the criticisms?

 

[Nonya]

It seems there should be a list of products that don't work as advertised, especially those that have proven to be harmful to the livestock.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Amazon sells it with this statement from UCI:

• Vibrant is safe with all fish, corals and invertebrates.
• For Fish Only Saltwater Aquariums Vibrant is a new revolutionary liquid aquarium cleaner.

How can the seller make both statements that appear to conflict with each other? 8% of the reviews on Amazon say that it kills corals, inverts and fish.

Randy, has anyone from UCI ever responded to the criticisms?

They said they would tell their side of the story on the NMR results.

After i asked them again if they intended to tell their side of the story, on Aug 10, 2022 they reiterated "Yes, when we are able to do so. At this point, we are not able to make any public posts. I can keep you informed as things move along."

i have not heard from them since.

 

[MnFish1]

Amazon sells it with this statement from UCI:

• Vibrant is safe with all fish, corals and invertebrates.
• For Fish Only Saltwater Aquariums Vibrant is a new revolutionary liquid aquarium cleaner.

How can the seller make both statements that appear to conflict with each other? 8% of the reviews on Amazon say that it kills corals, inverts and fish.

Randy, has anyone from UCI ever responded to the criticisms?

There is an entire thread on vibrant which explains the situation. I am not aware of any proof that vibrant kills corals invertebrates or fish if dosed correctly. The quote from amazon is worded poorly, I do not think its saying ONLY use it in fish only saltwater aquariums, but instead, that vibrant is a solution for fish only aquaria - since there is no 'clean-up crew'

 

[Nonya]

They said they would tell their side of the story on the NMR results.

After i asked them again if they intended to tell their side of the story, on Aug 10, 2022 they reiterated "Yes, when we are able to do so. At this point, we are not able to make any public posts. I can keep you informed as things move along."

i have not heard from them since.

LOL, their non-response response sounds like something a government press secretary might respond with. What do they expect to "move along" in a year-plus?

 

[Nonya]

There is an entire thread on vibrant which explains the situation. I am not aware of any proof that vibrant kills corals invertebrates or fish if dosed correctly. The quote from amazon is worded poorly, I do not think its saying ONLY use it in fish only saltwater aquariums, but instead, that vibrant is a solution for fish only aquaria - since there is no 'clean-up crew'

The one-star posts on Amazon amount to a thread posted by actual users. That's more important to me. Anytime I'm considering a product online I check the reviews. When a significant number say don't buy, I read thoroughly and determine if it's worth the risk. They don't list the active ingredients, and I can't find an SDS. That's concerning. I've found other reef products that don't list ingredients that also have some scary reviews.