Pro Reef salt from Turkey

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ICP analysis of freshly mixed salt show extreme iron and manganese. I have lost 2k in sps after water change.
I have been using tropic marine pro reef salt for the last 12 years ad have been an avid Tropic marine supporter. I have lost trust and feel betrayed.

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akaimal said:
ICP analysis of freshly mixed salt show extreme iron and manganese. I have lost 2k in sps after water change.
I have been using tropic marine pro reef salt for the last 12 years ad have been an avid Tropic marine supporter. I have lost trust and feel betrayed.

53F4D63F-791F-4D0D-85F9-D8000E2748C7.png
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I'm very sorry that you feel that way. I'm not sure what I can say to allay your fears. But I do want to just point out that the Mn and Fe concentrations, shown in this ICP report, match exactly what Hans-Werner Balling has stated above have been the concentrations in Tropic Marin salt mixes for many years. I can assure you that these Fe and Mn values are not the cause of your issue. Have you checked your tank system water for Fe and Mn? My guess is that you are not seeing concentrations like these in your system. If you have been using Tropic Marin for 12 years, you have been using salts with these concentrations for that period of time. To quote Hans-Werner Balling's post:

"we usually find around 100 ppb Mn with extremes from ca. 80 to 180 ppb. Concentrations are determinded by our routine ICP-OES batch checks.
I recall a talk of Julian Sprung some years ago where he attributed the success with Goniopora at the Waikiki Aquarium Hawaii to the water taken from a well rich in manganese. :)
Iron concentrations we find in our salts are around 1/3 of the Mn concentrations, around 30 ppb."

This has all been true for many years. Please don't take my comments as "defensive". I just want to give you the information so you know that these Fe and Mn values are NOT the cause of your coral losses.
 
Lou Ekus said:
I'm very sorry that you feel that way. I'm not sure what I can say to allay your fears. But I do want to just point out that the Mn and Fe concentrations, shown in this ICP report, match exactly what Hans-Werner Balling has stated above have been the concentrations in Tropic Marin salt mixes for many years. I can assure you that these Fe and Mn values are not the cause of your issue. Have you checked your tank system water for Fe and Mn? My guess is that you are not seeing concentrations like these in your system. If you have been using Tropic Marin for 12 years, you have been using salts with these concentrations for that period of time. To quote Hans-Werner Balling's post:

"we usually find around 100 ppb Mn with extremes from ca. 80 to 180 ppb. Concentrations are determinded by our routine ICP-OES batch checks.
I recall a talk of Julian Sprung some years ago where he attributed the success with Goniopora at the Waikiki Aquarium Hawaii to the water taken from a well rich in manganese. :)
Iron concentrations we find in our salts are around 1/3 of the Mn concentrations, around 30 ppb."

This has all been true for many years. Please don't take my comments as "defensive". I just want to give you the information so you know that these Fe and Mn values are NOT the cause of your coral losses.
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Thanks for the reply. If manganese and iron is not the issue for sure there is something with the binder that's not detectable with icp. Iron and Manganese gets depleted fast but I think the high concentrations shock certain corals after water change and eventually cause them to die. I do weekly water changes and was noticing issue the next day. I tried skipping water change and corals didn't die.

Things started going downhill after I got my first turkey bucket. I changed salt to hw marine and noticed corals were reacting with polyp extension instead of receding polyps and skin peel off the next day after water change.
It was like clock work with turkey batch.

To verify this problem I got a bucket of the German batch of tropic Marie pro reef salt and did a water change and next day no issues.

Also my RODI water is super clean. I have done ICP on it as well.

It took me months to figure out that salt was the problem. After I stopped using Tropic marine pro reef salt, things are back to normal again.
 
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Lou Ekus said:
I'm very sorry that you feel that way. I'm not sure what I can say to allay your fears. But I do want to just point out that the Mn and Fe concentrations, shown in this ICP report, match exactly what Hans-Werner Balling has stated above have been the concentrations in Tropic Marin salt mixes for many years. I can assure you that these Fe and Mn values are not the cause of your issue. Have you checked your tank system water for Fe and Mn? My guess is that you are not seeing concentrations like these in your system. If you have been using Tropic Marin for 12 years, you have been using salts with these concentrations for that period of time. To quote Hans-Werner Balling's post:

"we usually find around 100 ppb Mn with extremes from ca. 80 to 180 ppb. Concentrations are determinded by our routine ICP-OES batch checks.
I recall a talk of Julian Sprung some years ago where he attributed the success with Goniopora at the Waikiki Aquarium Hawaii to the water taken from a well rich in manganese. :)
Iron concentrations we find in our salts are around 1/3 of the Mn concentrations, around 30 ppb."

This has all been true for many years. Please don't take my comments as "defensive". I just want to give you the information so you know that these Fe and Mn values are NOT the cause of your coral losses.
Click to expand...


we also have issues with high Iron from TMP salt. We have 3 separate systems and all 3 systems have tested high now for iron. I also tested my RODI water and the Iron is 0 so its not coming from there. It has to be coming from the high TMP salt. That ICP test above is actually one that we did and sent to Anand. Just sharing our own personal experience as we believe the salt has high Iron and indeed overtime this Iron as creeped up in our systems over time and has affected our overall coral growth ect..
 
My acros are dying & heres an icp test my neighbor sent me from his bucket of salt;Wacky
 
Here’s what made in Turkey gets you in your mixing station-

9FEB7D35-56DB-41BC-A9B8-6276C07F8C04.jpeg

E0732728-839C-4DA5-B1CF-1BE19A920E71.jpeg

Throwing away 2 buckets of this, what a waste of money.
 
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2una said:
My acros are dying & heres an icp test my neighbor sent me from his bucket of salt;Wacky
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Bro, I was being nice here for saving you time and money, corals stopped dying and doing amazing as soon as I changed salt. Strangely it only affected certain tenuis for me. I was quick to change salt.

12 years without a crash.. got 12 year old acro colonies. I know what I am doing. And I know it when something is not tight.
 
Maybe BRS pushed this salt so hard and so many people started buying it that TM had to start using less desirable sources for their ingredients. Just a thought.
 
akaimal said:
Bro, I was being nice here for saving you time and money, corals stopped dying and doing amazing as soon as I changed salt. Strangely it only affected certain tenuis for me. I was quick to change salt.

12 years without a crash.. got 12 year old acro colonies. I know what I am doing. And I know it when something is not tight.
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I'm not doubting you , It just isn't going to help TM find the issue posting icp's that wasn't even the salt bucket you were using is all i was getting at.
 
Ryan Avery said:
Maybe BRS pushed this salt so hard and so many people started buying it that TM had to start using less desirable sources for their ingredients. Just a thought.
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if you have read the posts by Lou from TM, you will realize that is not so...

there are many of us out there that have used salt from TM from Turkey that are not having these issues...

thu i would admit there is something going on and i hope Lou and TM get to the bottom of it...
 
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I think I've see enough to warrant suspending my use of TMP salt until this issue is identified. It really seems like there must have been one or more bad lots of salt coming from the Turkey facility. I appreciate the insight from Lou and Hans on this thread and hope they can get to the bottom of this quickly!
 
Cell said:
until this issue is identified
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Some or maybe even most issues are never identified, sometimes simply due to lack of cooperation of the complaining. If Lou doesn't get the batch numbers and/or salt samples he can't find out what is going on.

I recall an issue similar to this one here which took place in February 2005 in a German forum. One reefer claimed to have losses of corals after using our Pro-Reef salt, which was quite new at that time and had gained lots of new users, and that also his shop has problems and losses with the same batch.

I drove the less than 100 km/60 miles to the shop and picked up the salt that was still in the shop. We set up a tank with 100 % freshly prepared saltwater from this salt and introduced a small rock with Xenias on it (photographs in the link). In the first days the tips of the Xenia tentacles burnt a bit because the saltwater was 100 % new and devoid of organics but they healed during the next days. Later we also added a few Montipora frags after dipping and meachanical removal of Montipora eating slugs. After a few weeks the Xenia where still pumping and the Montipora still thriving.

I just had a look into our bills and the shop is still our good customer and regularly orders salt for shop use.

This also did kick up some dust in Germany at that time but the issue was never identified. We can speculate what might happen when changing from one salt brand to another salt brand with a different trace element composition. Finally, without good cooperation of the complaining we have no chance to identify the issue.
 
Hans-Werner said:
Some or maybe even most issues are never identified, sometimes simply due to lack of cooperation of the complaining. If Lou doesn't get the batch numbers and/or salt samples he can't find out what is going on.

I recall an issue similar to this one here which took place in February 2005 in a German forum. One reefer claimed to have losses of corals after using our Pro-Reef salt, which was quite new at that time and had gained lots of new users, and that also his shop has problems and losses with the same batch.

I drove the less than 100 km/60 miles to the shop and picked up the salt that was still in the shop. We set up a tank with 100 % freshly prepared saltwater from this salt and introduced a small rock with Xenias on it (photographs in the link). In the first days the tips of the Xenia tentacles burnt a bit because the saltwater was 100 % new and devoid of organics but they healed during the next days. Later we also added a few Montipora frags after dipping and meachanical removal of Montipora eating slugs. After a few weeks the Xenia where still pumping and the Montipora still thriving.

I just had a look into our bills and the shop is still our good customer and regularly orders salt for shop use.

This also did kick up some dust in Germany at that time but the issue was never identified. We can speculate what might happen when changing from one salt brand to another salt brand with a different trace element composition. Finally, without good cooperation of the complaining we have no chance to identify the issue.
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Appreciate the response. My concern here is that this is more than just one reefer. When you have well respected community members and/or vendor(s) also experiencing issues, it becomes a trend, not an isolated incident. I truly hope whatever is going on can be figured out and that everyone who has reported issues here gives you the info you need to aid in this.
 
If I would get enough of one of the salts over here, again I would just run a trial. I am just doing a pre-trial with O3/O4 in two buckets (one control) with circulation, lighting and a few monti-frags and corals are still doing well after a few weeks. You don't need much effort to do a trial.

But let's see what Lou says.
 

IF YOU HAD TO TAKE A REEFING EXAM, WOULD YOU PASS?

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