Problems with ph and dKH

[Hockeypunk1]

I can purchase filtered water at a water station. It’s 12 step filtration and RODI is one of the steps. I can get 5 gal for $1.25. At this time I’m not interested in growing coral. I may one day try a BTA but for now FOWLR is what I’ll sticks with.
Thanks
PS. What did reefers use before RODI became available? Just wondering why it’s so important now. Not trying to be ugly I really am curious.

I'm sure the water is ro but it doesn't have di which gives a final polish and removes all the total dissolved solids that the reverse osmosis leaves behind. Giving you ultra pure water. You shouldn't drink deionized water because it will actually dehydrate you by bonding with the salt and minerals in your body. I could be wrong but I believe phosphate and silicates and some metals can make their way through ro filtration that's why di is important. I have used the filtered water that walmart sells and it worked fine when I kept soft coral. Since you don’t want to keep coral at this time the filtered water will be fine for your tank. It would likely also work for bta. Algae could become a problem depending on po4 in the filtered water.
I've been keeping saltwater fish for about 15 years and I used to use tap water with prime or some other conditioner. I don't know the full history on what was used but I know some would use ocean water and some would mix distilled water. I don't know how deionized water came to be used. Good question .
When I used tap I wasn't able to keep any inverts alive probably from the heavy metals in my well at the time. I could keep fish just fine but algae was always an issue for me.

 

[Gaines69]

Was wondering if this kind of filtered water would be ok until I can save up for a small rodi filter.
step 1 5- micron filter
step 2. Ion exchange
step 3. Activated carbon
step 4. 1- micron filter
step 5. Reverse osmosis
step 6. Ozanation sterilization
step 7. Taste and oder filter
step 8. Ultraviolet disinfection

I figured it has to be better than my tap water. Was hoping switching over to this water would help with my NO3, PO4, dKH, and PH levels. Also I’m sure this is a very newby question but should I test before feeding or after feeding after waiting an hour or more. I have been adding Prime to my aquarium but I’m not seeing a lowering of the NO3.
Thanks

 

[Hockeypunk1]

It's definitely going to be better than your tap water. I say use it until you can get an rodi. With a fish only setup if you're not having an algae bloom you really only need to test for salinity and no3. That is if you know your tank has cycled and you have no ammonia. It is great practice to keep an eye on the other parameters (dkh, ca, mg, po4) but not vital. Since you know that your dkh is crazy high I would certainly work on lowering that to under 10 slowly. With too high dkh it could precipitate and you will end up with solid sand and what looks like a snow storm in the tank.
Just be sure to use a calibrated refractometer to test the salinity. Don't use the swing arm hydrometer
You probably don't need to dose prime to the tank unless you have an ammonia spike. If anything dose it to your fresh water before you mix salt but probably not necessary

 

[Hockeypunk1]

Also just noticed you're using api for testing. I strongly recommend getting salifert or red sea kits or take some tank water to your local fish store and have them check the water. Api is pretty notorious for not being accurate except for the ammonia and nitrate

 

[Gaines69]

I’ll start saving up for a new test kit. The one I have isn’t very old. I don’t understand how the NO3 is high when ammonia and NO2 are zero. Guess I need to study the ammonia cycle some more. Lol. My salinity is between 1.023 and 1.025. Of course I test with a swing arm hydrometer. What is a good way to lower dKH slowly? Suggestions online are all over the place. I just don’t want to harm the fish, inverts, and crew that I have. Thanks for all the info.

 

[Hockeypunk1]

To lower the dkh just do small water changes, about 5 gallons should be fine, once a week using the filtered water and all your parameters should fall in line. If all you have is the swing arm make sure that no bubbles get on the arm it will throw off salinity drastically. I strongly recommend saving $ for a refractometer first with some calibration fluid. You can get a decent one on ebay or amazon for around $25 including the calibration fluid. In my opinion salinity is the most important parameter, it keeps all others in balance and fish and inverts are very sensitive to swings in salinity. Even changes from 1.023-1.025 can stress them out.
It's good that you have no3 but no ammonia or nitrite. The nitrogen cycle starts with fish waste that converts to ammonia which is highly toxic to fish and inverts. Then bacteria that consume ammonia begin converting the ammonia to nitrite. Nitrite isn't toxic in saltwater but it's very important to let the cycle finish. Finally more bacteria consume the nitrite and convert that to nitrate. This bacteria grows on all the available surface area like live rock and sand and when you have a well established tank the bacteria will instantly convert ammonia into nitrate. Then you have bacteria that lives deep in the rock where there's no oxygen that will take the nitrate and turn that into nitrogen gas.
Your tap water probably has some form of ammonia that gets converted to nitrate by your biological filtration and that's where your high nitrate readings come from

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I’ll start saving up for a new test kit. The one I have isn’t very old. I don’t understand how the NO3 is high when ammonia and NO2 are zero. Guess I need to study the ammonia cycle some more. Lol. My salinity is between 1.023 and 1.025. Of course I test with a swing arm hydrometer. What is a good way to lower dKH slowly? Suggestions online are all over the place. I just don’t want to harm the fish, inverts, and crew that I have. Thanks for all the info.

0.2 ppm nitrite, which your nitrite kit might miss, can show up as 20 ppm nitrate on a nitrate kit.

The store water you mentioned is most likely fine. The concern is primarily copper.

 

[Gaines69]

I just tested the filtered water. Phosphate is .25 KH is 1 NO3 is Zero and PH was 7.0. With the PH and KH being low will it be a problem. Last time I checked PH is was 7.4-8.4 and KH was 17. This water is going to be used as top off and for small water changes in hopes that my phosphates and NO3 in the tank will lower to desirable levels. How long after water change should I wait to retest? I will mix up the salt water tonight with a power head and check the readings tomorrow. I am using IO reef crystals.
Also, I read that there is a lot of waste water when using an RODI filter. Can the waste water be used for drinking, cooking etc. I hate to waste so much water.
Thanks

 

[Gaines69]

0.2 ppm nitrite, which your nitrite kit might miss, can show up as 20 ppm nitrate on a nitrate kit.

The store water you mentioned is most likely fine. The concern is primarily copper.

How would I check for copper? Neither the test kit I have nor the test strips test for copper.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

How would I check for copper? Neither the test kit I have nor the test strips test for copper.

No kit can test low enough. An ICP test can be useful.

 

[Hockeypunk1]

I just tested the filtered water. Phosphate is .25 KH is 1 NO3 is Zero and PH was 7.0. With the PH and KH being low will it be a problem. Last time I checked PH is was 7.4-8.4 and KH was 17. This water is going to be used as top off and for small water changes in hopes that my phosphates and NO3 in the tank will lower to desirable levels. How long after water change should I wait to retest? I will mix up the salt water tonight with a power head and check the readings tomorrow. I am using IO reef crystals.
Also, I read that there is a lot of waste water when using an RODI filter. Can the waste water be used for drinking, cooking etc. I hate to waste so much water.
Thanks

Phosphate seems a bit high but definitely better than tap. You should be fine with that for now. You can definitely use the waste water from rodi for everything. It goes through sediment and carbon blocks so it makes great deinking and cooking water. Some people empty the waste line into the washing machine and use it to wash clothes as well. I usually empty it into a large storage container for drinking and cooking and then dump the rest down the drain. The amount of waste is fairly minimal with a good rodi unit. Typically no more than taking a bath. However if you live in an area where water is scarce you can always look into the water saver rodi units that use the waste line to feed a second ro membrane.

 

[Gaines69]

Besides water changes how can I lower phosphates? As of now I have no algae problem. I have a lot of coralline algae and sand bed is algae free. It’s going to be several months before I can afford a RODI filter system. Is high phosphates going to harm my fish, shrimp, snails, feather duster, hermits, or brittle star? Along with my filter cartridges I also have extra carbon, 2 bags of Purigen, and filter foam in my filter. I’m hoping that with the water change I did earlier today and some time levels will regulate some.
Thanks

 

[Hockeypunk1]

As far as I know high phosphate won't harm anything. The main concern with high po4 would be nuisance algae growth. Sounds like you're on the right track

 

[Gaines69]

Since I’m having trouble lowering phosphates, dKH, and PO3 I decided to do another 20% water change. Picked up distilled water and have it mixing right now with a submersible pump. I also did some changes in my filter. I added two nitrogen reducing filter pads, new carbon, along with the two bags of Purigen, and filter pad that goes with my HOB bio wheel filter. I also picked up gracilaria micro algae to add to the tank. My turbos will eventually eat all of it then I’ll grab more. I’m thinking about adding on a HOB refugium that I made out of a fish breeding box. I’ll run it with the cheato (?) and live rock rubble. It was initially set up for copepods for my mandarin. It’s not the best looking thing hanging on the side of my tank( I have a 19x19x19 cube) but it won’t fit on the back because of the filter. Is there a way to make a sump for my tank without drilling it? It’s glass and not made to be drilled. I would like to make a small sump and add a small protein skimmer and make half of it a refugium.
Thanks again for all suggestions.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

[QUOTE="Gaines69, post: 4849149, member: 78865" I added two nitrogen reducing filter pads, .[/QUOTE]

What pads?

 

[Gaines69]

It’s cut to fit and I can get 4 out of it much cheaper than the filter pads that are made for my filter I’m getting ready to do my water change now water has been mixing for almost 24 hours how long after water change should I retest?

 

[Hockeypunk1]

Since I’m having trouble lowering phosphates, dKH, and PO3 I decided to do another 20% water change. Picked up distilled water and have it mixing right now with a submersible pump. I also did some changes in my filter. I added two nitrogen reducing filter pads, new carbon, along with the two bags of Purigen, and filter pad that goes with my HOB bio wheel filter. I also picked up gracilaria micro algae to add to the tank. My turbos will eventually eat all of it then I’ll grab more. I’m thinking about adding on a HOB refugium that I made out of a fish breeding box. I’ll run it with the cheato (?) and live rock rubble. It was initially set up for copepods for my mandarin. It’s not the best looking thing hanging on the side of my tank( I have a 19x19x19 cube) but it won’t fit on the back because of the filter. Is there a way to make a sump for my tank without drilling it? It’s glass and not made to be drilled. I would like to make a small sump and add a small protein skimmer and make half of it a refugium.
Thanks again for all suggestions.

Can you post a photo of your tank? This will help me to get an idea of what you're working with. I like the idea of the hob refugium but it might not be necessary. I always recommend having a sump because it adds water volume and cleans up the display so you don’t have a ton of equipment hanging from the tank. They do make hang on overflows that would give you the ability to have a sump without drilling. The downside is the chance of failure of the overflow and risk of overflowing the tank. You could probably get away with an in tank nano skimmer that would accomplish more than the filter pads as far as cleaning the water. Randy will know for sure but I don't think nitrate absorbing material works in saltwater. Also don't worry so much about chasing ideal numbers, these things will fall in line with water changes with pure water.
In the mean time I recommend watching some youtube videos like BRS 52 weeks of reefing and FishOfHex beginner guide series. Those 2 channels will teach you everything you need to know to be successful in this hobby

 

[Gaines69]

The pad said it was good for fresh or salt water but we all know how that goes. I have been watching a ton of videos including BRS ones. Did my 5 gal water change today with distilled water. Waiting to test until later tonight. Could the bio wheels be a problem? Do I need them since I have live rock and live sand? Before Harvey I had no issues with my tank. Had the tank cycled and running for six months without a loss. Since i moved the tank after Harvey I have lost my short spine urchin, my watchman goby, my manderian, my coral banded shrimp, and several peppermint shrimp as well as several turbo snails. Now I went and accidentally purchased a coral ( purple sea whip). Fingers crossed that a 5 gal water change weekly will do the trick.
29 gal cube
75 gal hob bio wheel filter
1 small power head
Orbit Marine LED light

Live sands
Live rock
2 clownfish
1 pistol shrimp
1 feather duster
1 purple sea whip
2 turbo snails
2 unknown snails. One big and one tiny
1 brittle star
Lots of bristle worms

 

[Gaines69]

Here is a better picture of my tank. I cleaned the outside. Lol. Also a close up of my first coral. Lol

 

[Hockeypunk1]

A lot can go wrong when you lose power or move a tank. First is the lack of temp control and water movement. When the temp rises oxygen levels drop and without good aeration the tank can become depleted of oxygen really fast. The next problem is just as deadly which is ammonia spiking. This can happen if something dies and your beneficial bacteria can't handle the ammonia. Stirring up dirty sand during a move can also cause ammonia to spike. Also if your rocks were exposed to the air for an extended period of time can kill the bacteria and cause the tank to have a cycle. Inverts are more susceptible to temperature and salinity fluctuations than fish. (Although that does cause stress and some fish are more sensative than others)
Any number of things could realistically have happened that caused your tank to crash. I don't think the biowheel is a problem. They can collect waste and potentially release nitrate over time but I wouldn't worry about it.

Good luck with your new coral! I haven't kept that type of coral so I'm not sure of its ideal conditions. Probably not too different than a lps coral. If you find that it require sps conditions you may want to rehome it until you can get all your parameters in line. I would definitely recommend to keep alkalinity as stable as you possibly can. That's the most important thing along with lighting and flow when it comes to any coral with a calcium skeleton.