Purposely making tank cloudier to test bacteria?

[SlugSnorter]

I didnt get a good picture. Was in too big of a rush to drain and clean. Unsure what type of chemical reaction would cause it in rodi water…
I can probably get better pics the next time i drain it. Parts looked like frozen condensation ice shards that grow on your glass, parts were circular. Google “bacteria petri”. That’s what it looked like.

well, petri dishes work by culture (bacteria are living, they need food), and theres plenty of chemicals the react with water. drain and refill, put a very bright light and see if something is deposting the substance, (side note: it sounds kinda like hagfish slime, probably not though)

 

[jDoSe]

well, petri dishes work by culture (bacteria are living, they need food), and theres plenty of chemicals the react with water. drain and refill, put a very bright light and see if something is deposting the substance, (side note: it sounds kinda like hagfish slime, probably not though)

It’s definitely a white slime, as mentioned before.
I dont know if the shapes on the glass mater, unless someone could identify based solely on that.
If all it did was make invisible shapes on the glass when the tank is filled, I wouldn’t care. It was so cloudy you couldn’t see 8 inches into the tank.

 

[SlugSnorter]

It’s definitely a white slime, as mentioned before.
I dont know if the shapes on the glass mater, unless someone could identify based solely on that.
If all it did was make invisible shapes on the glass when the tank is filled, I wouldn’t care. It was so cloudy you couldn’t see 8 inches into the tank.

can we get a picture of the particulate with high lights on it, or the shapes on the glass?

 

[jDoSe]

can we get a picture of the particulate with high lights on it, or the shapes on the glass?

The slime probably not. Ive boiled my sand 20x over and it was the only think showing the slime. At one point i did put a bit of filter floss in a water bottle with fresh clear water. When i shook it up, the water turned dark grey. I can probably replicate that, but itll take a week to get that bad.

The glass probably this weekend, if it does it again.

 

[SlugSnorter]

The slime probably not. Ive boiled my sand 20x over and it was the only think showing the slime. At one point i did put a bit of filter floss in a water bottle with fresh clear water. When i shook it up, the water turned dark grey. I can probably replicate that, but itll take a week to get that bad.

The glass probably this weekend, if it does it again.

alright, if the filter sock made the water dark grey its a chemical suspended in the water most likely

 

[SlugSnorter]

In all honesty, this may be a long and boring problem, but this thread can really help other reefers with a similar issue if we find the cure

(are you sure its not Kharaa? try enzyme 42) {if its not clear, this is a reference}

 

[SlugSnorter]

lets get @Jay Hemdal (sorry for the ping) he does really good work on the fish disease area and I think he might be able to help us understand whats going on

 

[jDoSe]

alright, if the filter sock made the water dark grey its a chemical suspended in the water most likely

I dont believe this is the case, because it was the same color as my tank water just more concentrated. Dark grey probably isnt the right word, but it was a more concentrated cloudy. Also, the water in the bottle after i shook it acted like a gel. There were bubbles in the bottle that rose way slower, as the liquid was significantly denser than water.

Not ruling anything put, but so far everything points to bacteria (or fungus or something organic at least).

 

[SlugSnorter]

I dont believe this is the case, because it was the same color as my tank water just more concentrated. Dark grey probably isnt the right word, but it was a more concentrated cloudy. Also, the water in the bottle after i shook it acted like a gel. There were bubbles in the bottle that rose way slower, as the liquid was significantly denser than water.

Not ruling anything put, but so far everything points to bacteria (or fungus or something organic at least).

huh, actually sounding more and more like hagfish slime. "to create a liter of slime, a hagfish has to release only 40 milligrams of mucus and protein" could be through some weird supply mess up, some got in your water. It reacts with water to form a slime, does the image below look like your sands goop?

I know its weird, but a microorgisim that survives in saltwater, RODI water, without any light is extremely weird too

 

[jDoSe]

huh, actually sounding more and more like hagfish slime. "to create a liter of slime, a hagfish has to release only 40 milligrams of mucus and protein" could be through some weird supply mess up, some got in your water. It reacts with water to form a slime, does the image below look like your sands goop?

I know its weird, but a microorgisim that survives in saltwater, RODI water, without any light is extremely weird too

No definitely not. It was white/grey, not clear.
I shoulda kept it. It’ll take at least a week for the floss to accumulate that much again.

 

[SlugSnorter]

No definitely not. It was white/grey, not clear.
I shoulda kept it. It’ll take at least a week for the floss to accumulate that much again.

well, its the one thing that matches all known parameters, it can discolor water (espcially when mixed with particulate like it would be when in sand, it can spring up quickly, is hard to clean out of substances, quickly springs up, makes gel in the sand.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I dont believe this is the case, because it was the same color as my tank water just more concentrated. Dark grey probably isnt the right word, but it was a more concentrated cloudy. Also, the water in the bottle after i shook it acted like a gel. There were bubbles in the bottle that rose way slower, as the liquid was significantly denser than water.

Not ruling anything put, but so far everything points to bacteria (or fungus or something organic at least).

I just scanned this thread and don't have any definitive answers, but three general observations:

1) This issue doesn't happen to most aquariums, so you need to examine things that were done differently -
2) Alcohol is a great food source for bacteria, wiping down surfaces in the tank, and then not letting it completely evaporate, could be fueling this issue.
3) White cloudiness is usually caused by bacteria, but what about non-biological sources? Not rinsing sand can be a problem.
4) I may have missed it, but have you tried capturing a gallon of this water and letting it settle overnight?

Jay

 

[SlugSnorter]

I just scanned this thread and don't have any definitive answers, but three general observations:

1) This issue doesn't happen to most aquariums, so you need to examine things that were done differently -
2) Alcohol is a great food source for bacteria, wiping down surfaces in the tank, and then not letting it completely evaporate, could be fueling this issue.
3) White cloudiness is usually caused by bacteria, but what about non-biological sources? Not rinsing sand can be a problem.
4) I may have missed it, but have you tried capturing a gallon of this water and letting it settle overnight?

Jay

I think its not caused by bacterium due to the sand being sludged, the appearance after the initial filling as well, and its prevalence in both salt and RODI water. OP never tried step 4, it think it would be a good idea to do.

 

[jDoSe]

I just scanned this thread and don't have any definitive answers, but three general observations:

1) This issue doesn't happen to most aquariums, so you need to examine things that were done differently -
2) Alcohol is a great food source for bacteria, wiping down surfaces in the tank, and then not letting it completely evaporate, could be fueling this issue.
3) White cloudiness is usually caused by bacteria, but what about non-biological sources? Not rinsing sand can be a problem.
4) I may have missed it, but have you tried capturing a gallon of this water and letting it settle overnight?

Jay

1) This isnt my first tank. Probably close to my 8th. Been in the hobby over over a decade. The cloudiness appeared before adding anything. At first I thought it was salt precipitation, but after multiple fresh batches I always got the same result. I tested with rodi and nothing else, and the tank is becoming cloudy. The only thing thats different than all my past tanks is that the rodi is brand new, tank is brand new, and salt is brand new.

2) Yes, I am aware of this. I only wiped the surfaces with alcohol. I wiped with rodi many many times, filled tank with water, wiped all surfaces again underwater. Dumped water and dried again. Filled and wiped,, drained and wiped again. Let it dry for 3-4 days while occationally hitting it with a hair drier even though it was bone dry already.

3) As mentioned, this started long before any sand was ever put in the tank. The sand was put in because i thought i could wait it out, but that isn’t possible as it only gets worse.

Bit of a summary:
When the tank was brand new, added rodi and salt, was cloudy for a week. Contacted tropic marin. They thought it was possibly precipitation. Dumped all the water and cleaned the tank. Refilled with rodi and mixed salt again. Same cloudyness after a week. Dumped and cleaned again. Added rodi and salt again. Cloudy, but thought the bacteria would go away so added sand. After a couple weeks it only got worse. Dumped the water, removed the sand, deep cleaned tank, removed all probes/heaters/filters. Added just the rodi and after 3 days, its starting to get cloudy (where i am now).

4) I tried this, nothing settled on the bottom. However, it is very hard to notice when in small volumes.

 

[elysics]

I didnt get a good picture. Was in too big of a rush to drain and clean. Unsure what type of chemical reaction would cause it in rodi water…
I can probably get better pics the next time i drain it. Parts looked like frozen condensation ice shards that grow on your glass, parts were circular. Google “bacteria petri”. That’s what it looked like.

There are bacteria that have forms like that, but if you say it looks like iceshards, that sounds very much like crystals.

What exactly does your system consist of, tank, sump, pipes, reactors, skimmers,pumps? Did you clean all of that?

I have the some notion as @SlugSnorter that someone in factory might have messed up and there is some glue/lubricant/protective oil/whatever chemical left on something in your tank and releasing into the water

 

[SlugSnorter]

There are bacteria that have forms like that, but if you say it looks like iceshards, that sounds very much like crystals.

What exactly does your system consist of, tank, sump, pipes, reactors, skimmers,pumps? Did you clean all of that?

I have the some notion as @SlugSnorter that someone in factory might have messed up and there is some glue/lubricant/protective oil/whatever chemical left on something in your tank and releasing into the water

yes, I feel machine crap is the most likely situation, beyond that something really weird is going on wether it be crazy life form or bizarrely hagfish slime protein

 

[jDoSe]

There are bacteria that have forms like that, but if you say it looks like iceshards, that sounds very much like crystals.

What exactly does your system consist of, tank, sump, pipes, reactors, skimmers,pumps? Did you clean all of that?

I have the some notion as @SlugSnorter that someone in factory might have messed up and there is some glue/lubricant/protective oil/whatever chemical left on something in your tank and releasing into the water

It’s a brand new nuvo fusion tank. Everything is removed, it’s just the return pump.

Not discounting it, just theres no evidence of it being some sort of leftover chemical. It wouldn’t be able to grow when a carbon source is introduced.
It wouldn’t last through 10+ drains and wipe downs including an alcohol wipedown. It wouldn’t slowly rise in concentration at the same rate every time. It wouldn’t also just so happen to be the exact same chemicals in my mixing buckets…

I would like to focus on the likely causes and where the evidence points. It is not hagfish slime.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

1) This isnt my first tank. Probably close to my 8th. Been in the hobby over over a decade. The cloudiness appeared before adding anything. At first I thought it was salt precipitation, but after multiple fresh batches I always got the same result. I tested with rodi and nothing else, and the tank is becoming cloudy. The only thing thats different than all my past tanks is that the rodi is brand new, tank is brand new, and salt is brand new.

2) Yes, I am aware of this. I only wiped the surfaces with alcohol. I wiped with rodi many many times, filled tank with water, wiped all surfaces again underwater. Dumped water and dried again. Filled and wiped,, drained and wiped again. Let it dry for 3-4 days while occationally hitting it with a hair drier even though it was bone dry already.

3) As mentioned, this started long before any sand was ever put in the tank. The sand was put in because i thought i could wait it out, but that isn’t possible as it only gets worse.

Bit of a summary:
When the tank was brand new, added rodi and salt, was cloudy for a week. Contacted tropic marin. They thought it was possibly precipitation. Dumped all the water and cleaned the tank. Refilled with rodi and mixed salt again. Same cloudyness after a week. Dumped and cleaned again. Added rodi and salt again. Cloudy, but thought the bacteria would go away so added sand. After a couple weeks it only got worse. Dumped the water, removed the sand, deep cleaned tank, removed all probes/heaters/filters. Added just the rodi and after 3 days, its starting to get cloudy (where i am now).

4) I tried this, nothing settled on the bottom. However, it is very hard to notice when in small volumes.

Just one other thought - in my systems, I frequently have the need to make up "hot" batches of salt. I've found though, that if you go more than double salinity (about 45 ppt) you can get insoluble precipitates. The same thing can happen to home aquarists if they add water to salt as opposed to slowly adding salt to the full volume of water.

Jay

 

[jDoSe]

Just one other thought - in my systems, I frequently have the need to make up "hot" batches of salt. I've found though, that if you go more than double salinity (about 45 ppt) you can get insoluble precipitates. The same thing can happen to home aquarists if they add water to salt as opposed to slowly adding salt to the full volume of water.

Jay

I get the cloudiness with rodi water. My water is cloudy right now with no salt. Gradually getting more cloudy by the day.

 

[SlugSnorter]

It’s a brand new nuvo fusion tank. Everything is removed, it’s just the return pump.

Not discounting it, just theres no evidence of it being some sort of leftover chemical. It wouldn’t be able to grow when a carbon source is introduced.
It wouldn’t last through 10+ drains and wipe downs including an alcohol wipedown. It wouldn’t slowly rise in concentration at the same rate every time. It wouldn’t also just so happen to be the exact same chemicals in my mixing buckets…

I would like to focus on the likely causes and where the evidence points. It is not hagfish slime.

okay, so if there is "no evidence" for machine crap or some weird chemicals (hag slime is really out there, i get it, but at this point its getting really weird), what makes bacteria more likely? how is it surviving different salinities? How is it surviving alcohol and no food? If its bacteria, its bacteria and machine crap that is somehow feeding it, it is very unlikely for it to be bacteria alone with no food, no light.

maybe you've been using the waste output from your RODI by accident, creating an area favorable to extreme bacterial bloom