Purposely making tank cloudier to test bacteria?

[jDoSe]

okay, so if there is "no evidence" for machine crap or some weird chemicals (hag slime is really out there, i get it, but at this point its getting really weird), what makes bacteria more likely? how is it surviving different salinities? How is it surviving alcohol and no food? If its bacteria, its bacteria and machine crap that is somehow feeding it, it is very unlikely for it to be bacteria alone with no food, no light.

maybe you've been using the waste output from your RODI by accident, creating an area favorable to extreme bacterial bloom

Been using spectraure rodi for 15+ years. Definitely not using the waste output lol.

Im sure there’s bacteria that survives different salinities.

My current theories:
1) It’s bacteria in the tap water that the rodi is not filtering out. It filters out 99.9%, but the .1% multiplies immediately. Since it is in the tap water, no matter how much I clean the tank, it is going to be added back in at the same rate every time. It gets worse because of two reasons. One is it grows, and two as the water evaporates I add more rodi which adds more bacteria. (Before you ask have I tried to see if it gets worse without topping off, yes, i have multiple times, it grows without topping off). There are multiple bacteria that could be in tap water such was iron bacteria, manganese bacteria, and a white slime bacteria. As for how it’s growing? It may be feeding of residuals in tank manufacturing, but this is very unlikely. I have yet to rule out my citrus arm and hammer garbage bags. It’s an apartment so I also shower with shampoo, clean clothes with detergent, and cook food (however I haven’t seen any correlation between these). It’s also possible whatever the bacteria consumes in the tap water is also not being removed by the rodi.

2) The tropic marin pro i got was accidentally tropic marin syn-biotic and there is something feeding the bacteria. But this is a stretch as the multiple cleanings should have prevented it from growing in rodi. Maybe I got a box that was all bacteria lol.

3) The bacteria is in the air. Something like Serratia marcescens, or pink slime which is pretty much everywhere and not possible to get rid of. Not saying it is this bacteria, but maybe something like it.


Things we know:
1) 100 micron floss is not enough to remove it.
2) Does not consume ammonia.
3) Gets significantly worse with vinegar dose.
4) Clouds the water column. Looks like smoke with pump on. With pump off it looks like homogenous grey water.
5) White slime comes off sand when rinsed.
6) Activated carbon has no affect.
7) Grows in rodi water at almost the same rate as saltwater. Maybe 30% slower. (This may be attributed to the fact I am not running a heater in rodi, so temp is around 73 vs 78.)
8) Uv sterilizer seems to clear it up a tiny bit for an hour or two, but then has seemingly no affect.
9) Protein skimmer is almost unusable as it foams uncontrollably.
10) As it gets more condensed, the water becomes like a thin gel.
11) Cloudiness starts after 24 hours and is noticably cloudy from afar after 72 hours. Water is completely clear for first 12 hours or so.
12) Water changes make it better for a few hours before it gets just as cloudy.
13) Takes about 2 weeks to get to the point you can’t see through the tank anymore.
14) Not salt precipitation.
15) Not sand dust.
16) Has “grown” in tank and mixing buckets. Not unique to tank.

 

[elysics]

Can you set up a random unrelated bucket with RODI and leave it for a day or two or until you would notice the stuff? That should rule out the salt

Don't treat the bucket with alcohol or anything

 

[jDoSe]

Can you set up a random unrelated bucket with RODI and leave it for a weak or two? That should rule out the water or confirm it has nothing to do with the tank

Don't treat the bucket with alcohol or anything

So the problem with this is I can’t tell how cloudy it is in the bucket. The bucket would have to be clear. For example, when it was at its worst and i couldnt see 10 inches into the tank, i scooped some water from the tank in a regular drinking glass. No mater how i viewed it, it looked clear to my eyes and I could barely tell it was cloudy (if at all). The volume/thickness was just too low.

I wanted a scientific approach to the cloudiness, but I could not find a transparency/opaqueness/clarity meter that would work. Although i just thought of putting this in my hanna meters…The numbers mean nothing but possibly the change in numbers may tell me how clear it is…

I may go buy a new 10gal from petco, but to rule out airborne bacteria, it needs a sealable lid. I’m sure I can find some sort of drinking water plastic container somewhere that’s a couple gallons. It just needs to be clear and thick enough.

 

[SlugSnorter]

So the problem with this is I can’t tell how cloudy it is in the bucket. The bucket would have to be clear. For example, when it was at its worst and i couldnt see 10 inches into the tank, i scooped some water from the tank in a regular drinking glass. No mater how i viewed it, it looked clear to my eyes and I could barely tell it was cloudy (if at all). The volume/thickness was just too low.

I wanted a scientific approach to the cloudiness, but I could not find a transparency/opaqueness/clarity meter that would work.

I may go buy a new 10gal from petco, but to rule out airborne bacteria, it needs a sealable lid. I’m sure I can find some sort of drinking water plastic container somewhere that’s a couple gallons. It just needs to be clear and thick enough.

for something like this is highly unlikely for airborne bacteria to be the culprit


you said you have kept 8 tanks before, how are they doing? do they use the same RODI filter (same exact one, not same model) and from the same source as the "infected" one? if it was airborne those would be infected too, and so would surrounding bodies of water around your home

did the "pattern" look like this?


Bacteria are highly unlikely, in order of likely hood:

1. machine crap

2. Organic Crap

3. Faulty RODI

4. Fungal

5. Bacterial

please, please PLEASE send pictures, I dont care if the tank is not fully dirtied yet, just send something as it will make this much easier

 

[jDoSe]

for something like this is highly unlikely for airborne bacteria to be the culprit


you said you have kept 8 tanks before, how are they doing? do they use the same RODI filter (same exact one, not same model) and from the same source as the "infected" one? if it was airborne those would be infected too, and so would surrounding bodies of water around your home

This is the only tank I have. I have been out of the hobby for a while. I had to buy a brand new spectrapure rodi as I sold my old one long ago.

 

[SlugSnorter]

This is the only tank I have. I have been out of the hobby for a while. I had to buy a brand new spectrapure rodi as I sold my old one long ago.

how close are you to an LFS? could you possibly take a large sample to them and explain the issue. they could potentially do some tests or even could have a microscope to tell if its fungal, bacterial or neither

 

[jDoSe]

how close are you to an LFS? could you possibly take a large sample to them and explain the issue. they could potentially do some tests or even could have a microscope to tell if its fungal, bacterial or neither

Close, but there’s no way they’ll know what it is. In my experience most LFS that have been in business for 10 years know slightly less that than a person who’s been on reef2reef for a week.

I am in contact with my university’s microbiology department. Hopefully I can bring them a sample.

 

[SlugSnorter]

Close, but there’s no way they’ll know what it is. In my experience most LFS that have been in business for 10 years know slightly less that than a person who’s been on reef2reef for a week.

I am in contact with my university’s microbiology department. Hopefully I can bring them a sample.

that could be a long process, good luck

if it turns out to be a new species name it limax inhalantes irritamentum cause this thing is crazy and seems to survive everything

in particular a marine sciences department could further assist, if the microbiology is inclusive or hard to reach

 

[jDoSe]

that could be a long process, good luck

if it turns out to be a new species name it limax inhalantes irritamentum cause this thing is crazy and seems to survive everything

in particular a marine sciences department could further assist, if the microbiology is inclusive or hard to reach

This department specializes in freshwater and saltwater bacteria. The question is not can they identify it, but are they willing to (may not have the time).

It’s not like they have to find a bacteria among thousands in a sterile sample. Im pretty sure a sample of water is over 99% this one bacteria.

 

[SlugSnorter]

This department specializes in freshwater and saltwater bacteria. The question is not can they identify it, but are they willing to (may not have the time).

It’s not like they have to find a bacteria among thousands in a sterile sample. Im pretty sure a sample of water is over 99% this one bacteria.

no I mean getting them to agree could be a long process it can be hard to coordinate something like that

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I get the cloudiness with rodi water. My water is cloudy right now with no salt. Gradually getting more cloudy by the day.

I misunderstood - your RODI water is cloudy from the point of collection? That would be directly related to an issue with the unit itself. If it is cloudy with RODI water, but after it is added to the tank, before the salt, then I would suspect sediment in the sand.

Jay

 

[SlugSnorter]

I misunderstood - your RODI water is cloudy from the point of collection? That would be directly related to an issue with the unit itself. If it is cloudy with RODI water, but after it is added to the tank, before the salt, then I would suspect sediment in the sand.

Jay

I think OP said their water became cloudy over time and was clear going in

 

[jDoSe]

I misunderstood - your RODI water is cloudy from the point of collection? That would be directly related to an issue with the unit itself. If it is cloudy with RODI water, but after it is added to the tank, before the salt, then I would suspect sediment in the sand.

Jay

So my tank was completely empty. I filled it with rodi. For first 12 hours it was crystal clear at every angle. After that, it has gradually gotten cloudier (just as it did the previous three times with saltwater). I am now on day 3.5 with pure rodi and it is significantly cloudy. I expect it to get worse over the next few days.

 

[elysics]

So the problem with this is I can’t tell how cloudy it is in the bucket. The bucket would have to be clear. For example, when it was at its worst and i couldnt see 10 inches into the tank, i scooped some water from the tank in a regular drinking glass. No mater how i viewed it, it looked clear to my eyes and I could barely tell it was cloudy (if at all). The volume/thickness was just too low.

I wanted a scientific approach to the cloudiness, but I could not find a transparency/opaqueness/clarity meter that would work. Although i just thought of putting this in my hanna meters…The numbers mean nothing but possibly the change in numbers may tell me how clear it is…

I may go buy a new 10gal from petco, but to rule out airborne bacteria, it needs a sealable lid. I’m sure I can find some sort of drinking water plastic container somewhere that’s a couple gallons. It just needs to be clear and thick enough.

You can just drop something random to the bottom of the bucket, idk, some plastic packaging with writing on it, something with detail and look if you can clearly see the detail, shine a flashlight on it to really detect any slight cloudiness at all

Don't leave something sitting in there though, just put in in when checking, in order to not impact the test

 

[jDoSe]

You can just drop something random to the bottom of the bucket, idk, some plastic packaging with writing on it, something with detail and look if you can clearly see the detail, shine a flashlight on it to really detect any slight cloudiness at all

Don't leave something sitting in there though, just put in in when checking, in order to not impact the test

I am goin to buy a cheap clear plastic storage bin with lid. I can only get the “smoke” to appear when light is shined on one pane and viewed from another perpendicular pane. Has to be something with how light reflects/refracts. It doesn’t work straight down.

 

[jDoSe]

Going to set up 3 brand new acrylic containers. One with tap water. One with rodi. One with boiled rodi. Should take 3-4 days to see any cloudiness since there’s no pump.

To me, this isn’t too useful of a test since it only tells us the source (maybe…) and organic or not (maybe…). It wouldn’t help identify it or how to remove it. However, multiple people asked for it so I’ll do it.

 

[SlugSnorter]

Going to set up 3 brand new acrylic containers. One with tap water. One with rodi. One with boiled rodi. Should take 3-4 days to see any cloudiness since there’s no pump.

To me, this isn’t too useful of a test since it only tells us the source (maybe…) and organic or not (maybe…). It wouldn’t help identify it or how to remove it. However, multiple people asked for it so I’ll do it.

get 4, one should be tank water as a tank control

also once again, send pictures or video, not sending them makes it a-lot harder for us to help

 

[jDoSe]

Well, the acrylic boxes didn’t work. They were 12” long, but still too small. When i put the cloudy tank water in, the water looked clear. Also, they all weren’t the exact same clarity (distortions mostly), so even empty they looked slightly different.

This is the hardest part. Defining cloudiness analytically/numerically.

Also, the tank with just rodi is still a tiny bit cloudy, but it hasn’t gotten worse in around 36 hours. I haven’t topped off in a couple days though. I am going to wait until the pump is almost running dry then top off a bunch to see if it gets significantly more cloudy.

I believe I ruled out the citrus arm and hammer garbage bags, as I opened two up right next to the tank, and the cloudiness didn’t change.

Back to being stuck on what to try. :/

I don’t think the university lab will help out as they’ve stopped responding.

 

[SlugSnorter]

Well, the acrylic boxes didn’t work. They were 12” long, but still too small. When i put the cloudy tank water in, the water looked clear. Also, they all weren’t the exact same clarity (distortions mostly), so even empty they looked slightly different.

This is the hardest part. Defining cloudiness analytically/numerically.

Also, the tank with just rodi is still a tiny bit cloudy, but it hasn’t gotten worse in around 36 hours. I haven’t topped off in a couple days though. I am going to wait until the pump is almost running dry then top off a bunch to see if it gets significantly more cloudy.

I believe I ruled out the citrus arm and hammer garbage bags, as I opened two up right next to the tank, and the cloudiness didn’t change.

Back to being stuck on what to try. :/

I don’t think the university lab will help out as they’ve stopped responding.

are you sure it isn't just sediment in your tank that gets crusted on the glass and reacted to the sand? over time some bacteria could grow in it too.

my theory

theres crap in the tank, reacted with the sand, caked tank materials and just hardened back up once dried, water goes in and the stuff dissolves. the crap can also be feeding some bacteria and killing the dr tims or keeping the Dr tims inactive.

I use a PC water cooling parts, a similar thing happens rarely. Only fix is to rinse everything, and use chemicals to get the residue off.

 

[jDoSe]

are you sure it isn't just sediment in your tank that gets crusted on the glass and reacted to the sand? over time some bacteria could grow in it too.

my theory

theres crap in the tank, reacted with the sand, caked tank materials and just hardened back up once dried, water goes in and the stuff dissolves. the crap can also be feeding some bacteria and killing the dr tims or keeping the Dr tims inactive.

I use a PC water cooling parts, a similar thing happens rarely. Only fix is to rinse everything, and use chemicals to get the residue off.

It was cloudy before I ever added sand.