QT Fail

tdowning · Mar 25, 2018

Hey all...

So I've been QT'ing some fish w/ ich for almost 2 weeks now. You can find my other threads as I had to put the QT together pretty quickly. In the last 24 hours I've lost a frostbite clown and a Male Lyretail angel fish. I've been treating w/ Paraguard and it seems to be having little impact so I need to move to copper. Is there a safe way to start treating with copper even though I've been treating w/ Paraguard for 10 days now. I think I'm going to lose a few more fish today and my heart is breaking.

Thanks.

deedubz · Mar 25, 2018

First of all, I'm sorry for your losses. It's certainly devastating to lose a pet.

While it's generally not advised to mix, it's my understanding that general cure doesn't have the binding agent that prazipro has which causes bacterial blooms. That said, if you're capable of a water change, I'd recommend trying to get some out before starting copper.

What exactly are the symptoms?

Sorry. I just saw that it's paraguard. I've never used it. I believe it has trace amounts of copper in it, correct?

tdowning · Mar 25, 2018

dwwataz said:
First of all, I'm sorry for your losses. It's certainly devastating to lose a pet.

While it's generally not advised to mix, it's my understanding that general cure doesn't have the binding agent that prazipro has which causes bacterial blooms. That said, if you're capable of a water change, I'd recommend trying to get some out before starting copper.

What exactly are the symptoms?

Spots on fins, my blue hippos is covered in spots and is breathing harder (i'm thinking he'll be the next fish to go which really sucks as that was a 6 year old blue hippo that I acquired from someone getting out of the hobby) some of the fish have spots on their eyes...I checked water parameters yesterday, and ammonia was a 2.0 ppm, so I did a 5 gallon water change out of 75, and added some prime to help control it. Other parameters were fine though. Everyone is eating well though and there is no erratic swimming into the sides of things.

deedubz · Mar 25, 2018

Skimmed your other thread. What type of filtration do you have? Did you use any bottled bacteria? Checked ammonia?

deedubz · Mar 25, 2018

@Humblefish

I'm not familiar with paraguard, but I know with most copper products prime will turn the copper toxic
Can prime be used with paraguard?

tdowning · Mar 25, 2018

dwwataz said:
Skimmed your other thread. What type of filtration do you have? Did you use any bottled bacteria? Checked ammonia?

Didn't use any bottled bacteria, Ammonia was at 2.0 ppm...using a hang on filter system.

HotRocks · Mar 25, 2018

tdowning said:
Didn't use any bottled bacteria, Ammonia was at 2.0 ppm...using a hang on filter system.

I'd recommend getting some bacteria in a bottle ASAP, several water changes, or a 100% change adding bottled bacteria to media. Fish that are afflicted with parasites, already have possible Gill damage, the ammonia will finish them off quick.

That would also get you a clean water column to start copper. Are you using test kit for ammonia, or badge? The tests aren't always accurate in the presence of medications.

@4FordFamily
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@Maritimer

4FordFamily · Mar 25, 2018

Lots of spots sounds like velvet. I agree with @HotRocks. That ammonia alone is highly lethal.

tdowning · Mar 25, 2018

I have 30 gallons of water getting up to temp that I can change out. I'm also making another 35 gallons of RO but that will take a good 7 hours to be ready. I do have some bottled bacteria that i just added as well. I'll try to get a good pic of the blue hippo as he has the most spots by far. All the others just have a few dots and some cloudiness of fins.

HotRocks · Mar 25, 2018

tdowning said:
I have 30 gallons of water getting up to temp that I can change out. I'm also making another 35 gallons of RO but that will take a good 7 hours to be ready. I do have some bottled bacteria that i just added as well. I'll try to get a good pic of the blue hippo as he has the most spots by far. All the others just have a few dots and some cloudiness of fins.

Pic would also be helpful. As if it is velvet you're dealing with. You will want to get the tank to fully therapeutic copper in the next 24-48 hours. Probably 24 hours, based on previous posts.

How quickly has the blue hippo increased in spots?

tdowning · Mar 25, 2018

tdowning said:
I have 30 gallons of water getting up to temp that I can change out. I'm also making another 35 gallons of RO but that will take a good 7 hours to be ready. I do have some bottled bacteria that i just added as well. I'll try to get a good pic of the blue hippo as he has the most spots by far. All the others just have a few dots and some cloudiness of fins.

tdowning · Mar 25, 2018

HotRocks said:
Pic would also be helpful. As if it is velvet you're dealing with. You will want to get the tank to fully therapeutic copper in the next 24-48 hours. Probably 24 hours, based on previous posts.

How quickly has the blue hippo increased in spots?

they are increasing noticeably by the day

lagatbezan · Mar 25, 2018

Get a bottle of Bio Spira. Petco usually carries it. put a sponge in a cup or a container, pour the bio spira on the sponge and leave it in the container/cup to soak up for a couple of hours. Then place the sponge in you hang on filter.
Paraguard unfortunately is not proven to treat ich or velvet.
You will need to start treating with copper ASAP. You can do FW dips to buy you some more time in case of velvet.

HotRocks · Mar 25, 2018

I would say, that is definitely velvet. There may be ich too. But the smaller salt grain like spots indicate velvet.

Do you have a copper product on hand?

tdowning · Mar 25, 2018

This was hippo on 3/19...and he had already been in QT for 5 days...the pics above this one are from today.

tdowning · Mar 25, 2018

HotRocks said:
I would say, that is definitely velvet. There may be ich too. But the smaller salt grain like spots indicate velvet.

Do you have a copper product on hand?

I don't, but I have a LFS near by that I can go and get some from. Should I do the water change first, and then add the copper?

HotRocks · Mar 25, 2018

tdowning said:
I don't, but I have a LFS near by that I can go and get some from. Should I do the water change first, and then add the copper?

See if they have cupramine or copper power. I would avoid copper safe unless it's all they have. You will want the comprable test kit as well.

I don't have experience with paraguard so I don't know if there is an issue mixing.

Maybe grab some RO water when you run to fish store to get as much of a water change as possible. I'd hate for you to have a negative effect mixing meds.

HotRocks · Mar 25, 2018

You could quickly heat the water by adding a few heaters to it. I have done so in emergency situations to heat large volumes quickly.

HotRocks · Mar 25, 2018

I know you have many things going on right now. But once you get situated check out this thread.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/c...instruments-high-range-copper-checker.368943/

Also let me know what type of copper you can get ahold of. I would break the doses up and do small amounts every couple hours, not dump it all on the fish at once. Basically a very accelerated ramp up.

tdowning · Mar 25, 2018

HotRocks said:
I know you have many things going on right now. But once you get situated check out this thread.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/c...instruments-high-range-copper-checker.368943/

Also let me know what type of copper you can get ahold of. I would break the doses up and do small amounts every couple hours, not dump it all on the fish at once. Basically a very accelerated ramp up.

As soon as I get home, I’ll let you know. Thanks