QT Fail

HotRocks · Mar 26, 2018

tdowning said:
Hey everyone...thanks for your help thus far. Hippo made it through the night, and I thought I lost her this morning but she was eating some seaweed and swimming around before...my fingers are crossed but it's a cautious optimism at this point. Even though I changed 40 gallons yesterday, i'm still getting 2.0 ppm when I do an ammonia test. Does the cupramine throw off a false negative on that test? I did also add a sponge, and just did my second dose of Seed (good bacteria). I started round two of cupramine about 30 minutes ago and will have the final 142 drops in by 10 pm tonight....I'm mostly worried about my ammonia levels right now, but if it's a false read, how do I get a more accurate read? All the fish seem to be acting normal, sans hippo who is taking it quite easy but i'm sure she's super stressed and a little weak and just trying to conserve her energy for the fight she's in I can't tell each of you how much your help and support has meant through this.

Are you getting that reading from a badge, or a test kit? If it's a test kit which kind/brand? Most test kits for ammonia are not accurate in the presence of copper.

lagatbezan · Mar 26, 2018

yes, most test kits will not read properly when used in conjunction with copper. Get yourself a ammonia badge made by seachem.

HotRocks · Mar 26, 2018

I'm glad fish survived the night. The next 24-48hrs is critical. You just have to hope they keep eating, and can withstand as you ramp copper up to therapeutic.

Big G · Mar 26, 2018

If you are dosing with SeaChem's Cupramine, the only ammonia test that is reliable is the SeaChem Ammonia test kit. I'd still use a SeaChem Ammonia Alert Badge as a backup though.
This one. And you only need to worry about the "Free Ammonia" part of the test - that's the toxic ammonia

Screen Shot 2018-03-26 at 3.50.35 PM.png

deedubz · Mar 26, 2018

2 ppm on a color test or on an alert badge? I believe copper does cause false positives with the test kits. It does not with the badge that sticks inside the aquarium

Jeeper · Mar 26, 2018

Something I found somewhere (maybe this forum??) for cupramine and it actually written on my fish room wall is the formula for dosing ML per gallon. That way I know exactly how much to put in and don't have to wonder about the drops. I use an old graduated syringe from a test kit.

.381 x Strength of Dose Desired x gallons = ML of Cupramine

tdowning · Mar 26, 2018

I am using this...

HotRocks · Mar 26, 2018

tdowning said:
I am using this...

That is API. You need a seachem badge. Your ammonia is probably fine.

http://www.seachem.com/ammonia-alert.php

Big G · Mar 26, 2018

The API ammonia test kits don't work accurately when copper is in the tank

tdowning · Mar 26, 2018

Thanks. I’ll pick up a seachem one tomorrow.

tdowning · Mar 27, 2018

Hippo made it through another night! Now that I have the copper at a therapeutic level, do I need to continue adding more each day to keep it at that level? Basically wondering if it dilutes more as time goes on and if I need to add more daily, is there a simple formula to follow face off current level, target level and water volume?

Big G · Mar 27, 2018

Usually no need to add additional copper unless it get absorbed some how in your tank. Add regular RODI water for evaporation like you always do. Keep testing the first few days to reassure yourself that the copper is maintaining at therapeutic level. And make sure that when you do a water change that the old saltwater that is at therapeutic level is replaced by new, already mixed with copper, saltwater at therapeutic level. So test your water change water before adding it too your tank. You don't want the copper to drop even for a moment below therapeutic level.

william.sting · Mar 27, 2018

Also watch that concentrations don't get to high. Copper is toxic to everything in your tank, and there isn't a very large gap between therapeutic and toxic.

Big G · Mar 27, 2018

william.sting said:
Also watch that concentrations don't get to high. Copper is toxic to everything in your tank, and there isn't a very large gap between therapeutic and toxic.

Good point. We always seem to focus so much on getting to "therapeutic levels" that we don't talk much about overdosing. Always approach the "therapeutic level" with caution. Test, test, test. You should always be cautious as others have found recently when using a different copper solution, Coppersafe, there has been some question as to the strength of the currently sold Coppersafe. Apparently it has increased. So some members overdosed because they were "used" to using a certain amount and did not test because of familiarity with the product. So yes, test, test, test to make sure not to under dose or over dose. Especially when you open a new bottle of product.

tdowning · Mar 27, 2018

Will this give me an accurate ammonia test with the copper present?

GoldeneyeRet · Mar 27, 2018

tdowning said:
Hey all...

So I've been QT'ing some fish w/ ich for almost 2 weeks now. You can find my other threads as I had to put the QT together pretty quickly. In the last 24 hours I've lost a frostbite clown and a Male Lyretail angel fish. I've been treating w/ Paraguard and it seems to be having little impact so I need to move to copper. Is there a safe way to start treating with copper even though I've been treating w/ Paraguard for 10 days now. I think I'm going to lose a few more fish today and my heart is breaking.

Thanks.

Sorry for your losses.

I only read your initial post, but I look at it another way. I feel the main reason to QT is to protect all the established livestock in DT, so QT losses may actually be a success, though losing any fish always hurts.

Anyway, best of luck moving foreward

tdowning · Mar 30, 2018

Hey everyone...wanted to give a quick update...it seems like the Cupramine is doing the trick...I was quite worried (still cautiously optimistic) about the Blue Hippo but she's been much more active and her spots are slowly going away. I've attached a few pics of her and the Brown tang as those two were the worst off. Thanks again for all of your help and advice. I'm going to keep the Copper at therapeutic levels for the full 14 days and then after that I'm not sure what to do

I'll do some digging throughout the forums as I'm sure my answer is there some where. Cheers!

william.sting · Mar 30, 2018

Awesome. I hope they all make it! They're gorgeous fish.

Big G · Mar 30, 2018

tdowning said:
Hey everyone...wanted to give a quick update...it seems like the Cupramine is doing the trick...I was quite worried (still cautiously optimistic) about the Blue Hippo but she's been much more active and her spots are slowly going away. I've attached a few pics of her and the Brown tang as those two were the worst off. Thanks again for all of your help and advice. I'm going to keep the Copper at therapeutic levels for the full 14 days and then after that I'm not sure what to do I'll do some digging throughout the forums as I'm sure my answer is there some where. Cheers!

Many here would advise you to maintain the copper QT for the full 30 days. Pulling them out at 14 is cutting it pretty close. And you would need to place them into a fresh QT to observe for 10-14 days anyway. 30 days, good healthy food, great water quality = disease free and healthy fish.

Awesome they are doing well. Good job!

tdowning · Mar 31, 2018

Big G said:
Many here would advise you to maintain the copper QT for the full 30 days. Pulling them out at 14 is cutting it pretty close. And you would need to place them into a fresh QT to observe for 10-14 days anyway. 30 days, good healthy food, great water quality = disease free and healthy fish. Awesome they are doing well. Good job!

30 days it is then! Once the 30 days is up, can I just do a water change to remove the copper and keep them in there then until the DT hits the 76 day fallow mark?