QT Fish Dying

[Aaron-A2]

I started with 4 fish in my 30g QT:

• Yellow Wrasse
• Hoeven's Wrasse
• Red Headed Solon Fairy Wrasse
• Japanese Swallowtail Angel

The yellow wrasse was DOA. I waited 3 days before adding copper -- all fish have been eating and doing generally great.

Fast forward 2 weeks+, and within 2 days I have lost my Angel and Fairy Wrasse. Both were still eating the nights before, showing no signs that I could tell of trauma/issue. After losing the first fish, I dosed Prazipro into the water column, but either it had no effect or not enough time to help the Fairy Wrasse.

Right now, I'm down to just my Hoeven's Wrasse and I feel terrible. I don't know what to do.... I just did a 25% water change. Here are my parameters:

• Ammonia: 0
• Nitrates : 25
• Temp : 78

Any suggestions would be helpful.

 

[DeniseAndy]

I am so sorry. Sometimes things happen. First, I assume you are using an ammonia badge since it is 0. That is good. I do not do copper, so I am not good to talk to about effects of that med.

However, good qt can take time to perfect and has a lot to do with healthy fish. Where did you get the fish from and do you trust the course? This is a huge one as sometimes nothing we do can help poorly transported, caught or handled fish.

There are great articles on setting up qts. I would make sure to do 1 fish at a time for a while. I only do multiples if they are a pair of something.

 

[tgrick]

Which brand of copper did you use? It' really important to answer this.

 

[Aaron-A2]

Which brand of copper did you use? It' really important to answer this.

I used Seachem's cupramine.

 

[tgrick]

I ask because there is an interesting
discussion here...

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/c...ge-copper-checker.368943/page-26#post-4619877

You used cupramine so it does not apply to you.

How large is the QT tank? What filter are you using for it? Do you have a powerhead aimed at the surface? In my QT tanks (I have 3 right now...had Velvet, 2 fish developed a bacterial infection. All are doing really well) I use an OVERSIZE filter and small powerhead aimed at the surface. I can take pictures if you like

 

[tgrick]

When I set up a quarantine tank or hospital tank my 1st priority is water surface agitation. As much as possible. In fact, in some tanks I also set up an inexpensive sponge filter to further help with bacteria and surface agitation. The method has worked for me through the years and I just do it the same way. I usually choose a filter for 2x or 3x the size of the tank. So, If I have a 10 gallon tank I use a filter for 30 gallons and many times I go for the 50 gallon filter. The next thing I worry about are places for the fish to hide. I go to the hardware store and get 3" or 4" plastic pipe fittings for the fish to hide. I cover the top with eggcrate used for lighting.

 

[tgrick]

Here is a pic of my 2 tanks.

 

[tgrick]

It's a mess and my wife really hates they way they look and where they are. I have 4 kids so she puts up with it. I have had fish in these tanks since mid January of this year. I plan to slowly release them all back into the main tank mid May. I added some snails to the main tank and I'm going to wait 45 days from the date I put them in just in case.

 

[Aaron-A2]

I ask because there is an interesting
discussion here...

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/c...ge-copper-checker.368943/page-26#post-4619877

You used cupramine so it does not apply to you.

How large is the QT tank? What filter are you using for it? Do you have a powerhead aimed at the surface? In my QT tanks (I have 3 right now...had Velvet, 2 fish developed a bacterial infection. All are doing really well) I use an OVERSIZE filter and small powerhead aimed at the surface. I can take pictures if you like

Here are your answers:

• 30 gallon
• Double sponge filter
• Powerhead at the surface line

 

[tgrick]

The setup sounds fine to me. Should easily work. Was the water cloudy? What is the PH? I'm at a loss...anyone???

 

[Humblefish]

I used Seachem's cupramine.

What is the current Cu reading? And how long did you take to get there?

 

[Aaron-A2]

What is the current Cu reading? And how long did you take to get there?

0.5. I followed the instructions, so around 2-3 days doing half dose per dose to get there.

 

[Humblefish]

0.5. I followed the instructions, so around 2-3 days doing half dose per dose to get there.

Did the water turn cloudy after combining copper + Prazipro? Sometimes when mixing Prazipro with another medication a bacterial bloom will occur and that starves a lot of available O2 out of the water.

 

[Aaron-A2]

Did the water turn cloudy after combining copper + Prazipro? Sometimes when mixing Prazipro with another medication a bacterial bloom will occur and that starves a lot of available O2 out of the water.

No bacterial bloom. I added an additional air stone after I dosed prazipro.

 

[Humblefish]

No bacterial bloom. I added an additional air stone after I dosed prazipro.

It's possible the fish had flukes and Prazipro was dosed too late. Did you notice any of these behavioral symptoms of flukes? Head twitching, yawning, scratching targeting the gill area...

Whenever a fish in QT dies I always perform a FW dip postmortem to double check for flukes.

 

[Aaron-A2]

It's possible the fish had flukes and Prazipro was dosed too late. Did you notice any of these behavioral symptoms of flukes? Head twitching, yawning, scratching targeting the gill area...

Whenever a fish in QT dies I always perform a FW dip postmortem to double check for flukes.

I saw scratching on my Hoeven's wrasse immediately after I dosed Prazipro -- I thought it was just a reaction to the medicine (never dosed it before). I hadn't seen scratching before that.

 

[Humblefish]

I saw scratching on my Hoeven's wrasse immediately after I dosed Prazipro -- I thought it was just a reaction to the medicine (never dosed it before). I hadn't seen scratching before that.

When a fish has flukes, he will usually twitch after prazi is dosed because the flukes begin to spasm on the body/inside the gills.

 

[Aaron-A2]

It's possible the fish had flukes and Prazipro was dosed too late. Did you notice any of these behavioral symptoms of flukes? Head twitching, yawning, scratching targeting the gill area...

Whenever a fish in QT dies I always perform a FW dip postmortem to double check for flukes.

So this morning, I woke up to my last fish (Hoeven's Wrasse) laying on its side on the bottom of the tank. It was struggling to breath, but still alive. In a last ditch effort to help it, I did a freshwater dip in RODI water brought to temp and pH matched. I didn't see any flukes fall off it's body (Used a red cup). what the ****...

 

[Deezill]

I was reading a thread on Chelated Cooper and Ionic Cooper. I gotta find it ont he forums here. Someone added a link on the effect of
Cooper treatments with Fish Ionic Copper seemed to be a tad rough on Certain Fish. have a look at the chart below. I found the on the R2R forums maybe someone knows where the article is located. As you can see Cooper treatment on Wrasses was rough using Ionic Cooper such as Cupramine. Angels did better with Chelated Cooper treatment such as Cooper Safe or Cooper Power. Wrasses should not be treated with CP at all I am guessing they die. I would also check the therapeutic levels of Cupramine.

 

[Deezill]

Here is one link
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/fish-and-treatment-guidelines-with-chart.283450/