Question about antibiotic dip

[Robert Ranciato]

Is it ok to use amoxicillan instead cipro when making a long term dip for my torch corals. I'm afraid to use in my main system. I'm going to dip them for few hours to see if they improve.

 

[Gundy]

The last thing I will say, I don't believe in using antibiotics as a preventive.

However, as the dentist up there was talking.. reminded me. After surgeries, the patient is given antibiotics to take for a week to prevent infections.

I'm not sure if that practice has ended or not.

I remember 30 years ago we would prescribed antibiotics all the time. Now, we prescribe them much much less and not very much to prevent infections. This took a lot of adjusting from my patients as they were always thinking antibiotics were needed. I would think using antibiotics as a preventative is not warranted and could cause more harm than good.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

The last thing I will say, I don't believe in using antibiotics as a preventive.

However, as the dentist up there was talking.. reminded me. After surgeries, the patient is given antibiotics to take for a week to prevent infections.

I'm not sure if that practice has ended or not.

Depends on the surgery. Anything around the intestines is at substantial risk from a nicked bowel. I worked for many years on a program to prevent surgical site infections using antimicrobial polymers.

 

[Goaway]

I remember 30 years ago we would prescribed antibiotics all the time. Now, we prescribe them much much less and not very much to prevent infections. This took a lot of adjusting from my patients as they were always thinking antibiotics were needed. I would think using antibiotics as a preventative is not warranted and could cause more harm than good.

They used to say "prevention is the best medicine". I only hear that for puppy training now.

Depends on the surgery. Anything around the intestines is at substantial risk from a nicked bowel.

I had a c-section, they pumped me full of antibiotics before the surgery. This was almost 5 years ago. Never know when they change things up.

 

[WillpoleReefers]

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Hi Randy, thanks, yes I did a bit of a Google after the posts and very rapidly came up to speed. Pretty amazed still that this can be bought in the States. I can see that mail order is possible too. In most of the developed world fluroquinolones are very much more protected. I’m not sure vets are even allowed to use them for anything in some countries. The feeling I get is it is very much the reverse of use it or lose it when they are prescribed. Overdo it ongoing and all animals will end up denied the drugs in the long term. US approach to this still gives me hives

Steve

 

[WillpoleReefers]

They used to say "prevention is the best medicine". I only hear that for puppy training now.


I had a c-section, they pumped me full of antibiotics before the surgery. This was almost 5 years ago. Never know when they change things up.

Yes it does change and that is evidence based development of clinical practice. My own use is zero for clean surgery, occasional one shot only for the next step up contamination wise. That’s where the evidence takes us in vet medicine really. It looks increasingly probable that antibiotics have no great preventive effects. I think practice will evolve further as the evidence base grows,

Steve

 

[WillpoleReefers]

Depends on the surgery. Anything around the intestines is at substantial risk from a nicked bowel. I worked for many years on a program to prevent surgical site infections using antimicrobial polymers.

At the moment there is a case for 1 shot treatment when opening intestines. But if used as short a duration as possible seems to be the way to minimise AMR

Steve

 

[Auto-pilot]

Just to throw my opinion into the mix. I use dips often. I leave the coral in a 4 gallon plastic container with a pump and antibiotics OFTEN when helping people with their sick corals leaving them in the solution for 24 hrs. I have seen many negative effects with treating an entire system with antibiotics and only recommend when it's a last resort. I use KFC dip instructions and I have been extremely successful. They also do not recommend adding antibiotics to your entire system.

 

[Latte]

I'm going to make one last post before I leave this thread as it's clear a lot of people are set in their ways and don't seem open to changing them.

First a point on "why do you care all of a sudden?" Personally, this has been an important issue for years but I've only just found out that chemiclean contained antibiotics and I've only in the last year or two seen such a rapid increase in the use of antibiotics in our hobby. Further, as I've said before, just because we used to accept something doesn't mean we should continue to do so - when the evidence suggests a practice is dangerous or irresponsible I would hope we all are willing to reconsider those practises.

Then "but why our tanks? The farmers are doing worse!" Yes, it sounds like farmers in the US are exercising horrible antibacterial stewardship also. However I'm not in a thread where I'm able to have discussions with farmers about their uses. As someone close to the farming industry in Australia, this is quite a different scenario overseas, so the abuse of antibiotics in reef tanks has been quite a shock to me, as it seems to be to other non-Americans. Similarly to above - "but someone else is doing it worse" can be used to justify a lot of awful things. We should look at the actions we are taking and if they're responsible, not compare them to a clear evil and say "well I'm not that bad, so there's no need for me to change!"

Finally, this is already a massive issue, AMR deaths are already estimated at over a million annually across the world. We need to start treating antibiotics as what they really are, a precious, non-renewable resource. Once we run out of effective antibiotics, we are returning to a world where a small cut could kill you. Continuing to advocate for people who don't understand the medication to use it in scenarios where they haven't even properly diagnosed a problem, in ways they clearly don't understand is irresponsible and dangerous.

 

[vetteguy53081]

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[TheSheff]

As a dentist I will respond. Actually, repeated and continuous exposure to pathogens with antibiotics over the years has created resistant strains with certain pathogens in humans. In my opinion, I see nothing wrong treating aquarium species such as corals, mushrooms and fish with specific antibiotics in a responsible manor. As hobbyists, we have a responsibility to care for these creatures in our aquariums. Too many people kill countless fish and corals because they are uninformed and uneducated on how to care for these animals. Many do not take this responsibility seriously. In my opinion, treating aquarium species with antibiotics has no chance of creating resistance since most do not reproduce in captivity in large masses. Thus, they can’t pass on any resistance to a particular antibiotic.

Also, if people are having success with dipping corals in a particular antibiotic and having success, I don’t see the harm in doing so. What harm can it do if it’s nearly dead? Keep in mind that we in this forum are not experts in how antibiotics are absorbed in these animals. We don’t know what the half life is and just how the healing process works when exposed to an antibiotic. What we do know is that some people are apparently having success. Perhaps other reefers will jump into the conversation and share their stories.

Who knows, maybe 5 years from now, dipping corals with a specific antibiotic will be the norm.

I think that the hope is that some company will make an additive that can combat BJD, RTN, STN, etc. without the use of antibiotics. It seems that we are pretty early on that journey of research though.