Question about Spectracide Stump Remover dosing

Russ265 · Sep 17, 2015

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
IMO, the ratio in the water does not relate to the Redfield Ratio.

In other words, the ratio of things an organism takes up should not be reflected in the concentrations in the water.

For example, corals take up way more calcium than magnesium, and roughly the same calcium as "carbonate" and yet there's way more magnesium and way less carbonate relative to calcium in seawater.

this is true for coral.

not it's symbionts that give the coral it's coloration.

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
Surface seawater (where reefs are) is typically less than 1 ppm, and often less than 01 ppm.

this is true as well.

but they are all brown and not bombed with our 1000w sun panels.

hawkinsrgk · Sep 17, 2015

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
Surface seawater (where reefs are) is typically less than 1 ppm, and often less than 01 ppm.

Hi Randy

What do you think the ideal value should be?

twilliard · Sep 17, 2015

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
IMO, the ratio in the water does not relate to the Redfield Ratio.

In other words, the ratio of things an organism takes up should not be reflected in the concentrations in the water.

For example, corals take up way more calcium than magnesium, and roughly the same calcium as "carbonate" and yet there's way more magnesium and way less carbonate relative to calcium in seawater.

Hi Randy good to see you!
What's your opinion on dosing no3?
I have recovered my sps from near death (from flatworm toxins)
I am writing an article about dosing potassium nitrate and would love to hear your feedback.
I wish you a great day!

sfg · Sep 17, 2015

Curious as to why so many SPS tanks thrive with 0 nitrates. Prior to setting up my tank most of what I read pointed to low nutrient and to shoot for 0 phosphates and 0 nitrates. But here we are seeing real results with keeping nitrates to a certain level. Did I miss something or am I just misinformed?

bneufelder · Sep 17, 2015

Zero is a tough number. I have two tanks, they both read 0 but I would rather say undetectable. My DT has sand and decent color, but "most" SPS pales when introduced, but colors back up after a few weeks. My frag tank has no sand (it's a lot more sterile) and SPS pales and doesn't color up after a few weeks. I'm sure my DT has more nitrate because it has a much larger bio-load so it makes sense to me.

I think a lot of people hover near 0 and may read 0 but have enough nitrate that corals still look decent, but it's not hard to overskim, over refugee and drive it even further down like my frag tank.

I agree that it's probably a balancing act based on other factors and 3 seems to be the magic number. For some, even 0.25 is a step-up and you will see positive results. It means not all nitrate is being consumed instantly which i think would be a good thing. If things look better from 0.25 to 3 i don't know yet but i'm excited to find out.

Russ265 · Sep 17, 2015

sfg said:
Curious as to why so many SPS tanks thrive with 0 nitrates. Prior to setting up my tank most of what I read pointed to low nutrient and to shoot for 0 phosphates and 0 nitrates. But here we are seeing real results with keeping nitrates to a certain level. Did I miss something or am I just misinformed?

because 99% of tanks have a nitrate surplus in their system and it still makes nitrate readily available.

i assure you. if you had a "real" no3 of 0 your sps would die within a month or so. dying a very pale death.

ill give you an example.
if your trates rise 7ppm a week and you get them down to 0 weekly, you can say "my tank thrives in 0" but in reality you just went up 1ppm in 24 hours with readily available nitrate.

if your trates naturally go down 7ppm a week. and do a water change to 0. well... something is going to die.

sfg · Sep 17, 2015

Well, that just threw a curve ball in my OCD ways. Lol. If only that would have been mentioned in one of the many articles I've read in the past... I may have eased up on my "operation zero" mission.

jpines · Sep 17, 2015

sfg said:
Curious as to why so many SPS tanks thrive with 0 nitrates. Prior to setting up my tank most of what I read pointed to low nutrient and to shoot for 0 phosphates and 0 nitrates. But here we are seeing real results with keeping nitrates to a certain level. Did I miss something or am I just misinformed?

+1

Russ265 · Sep 17, 2015

what 0 nitrate does to an acro.

day 1

day 4

day 10

finish him! day 15

took 2 more weeks before he was a total loss.

jpines · Sep 17, 2015

Russ265 said:
what 0 nitrate does to an acro.

day 1

day 4

day 10

finish him! day 15

took 2 more weeks before he was a total loss.

Exactly what I've seen over the last week since my nitrates bottomed out

Russ265 · Sep 17, 2015

jpines said:
Exactly what I've seen over the last week since my nitrates bottomed out

then you have a nitrate(or phosphate) deficit.

it doesnt take long and ive seen it time and time again. i dont even test my tank for nitrates anymore. if my rainbow acro starts paling (usually at 2ppm for my system), in goes the nitrate dose and i get immediate results in 24 hours.

others who do not have a "true" nitrate deficit will not understand.

JBNY · Sep 17, 2015

I saw this post and wanted to share my experience with dosing Nitrates.

I have been dosing potassium nitrate in my tank for about 6 months. Right now my parameters are NO3 5ppm PO4 0.02ppm, These have been rock steady for about the last 4 months or so.

I first started dosing Nitrates as a means of controlling my Phosphates. To control Nitrates and phophates, I am running an algae reactor with Cheatomorpha in it instead of carbon dosing and using GFO. I found that when my Nitrates fell to undetectable levels, I could dose Nitrates in the tank and pull my Phosphate even lower, I was able to maintain NO3 at under 1 ppm and PO4 at 0.00 when dosing Nitrates. Those levels I was never able to achieve even when aggressively running GFO and carbon dosing. I have since moved to maintaining my N at about 5ppm and my P has stayed at about 0.02 which I am perfectly fine with.

When dosing Nitrates I am using the calculator from here

http://www.theaquatools.com/fertilization-calculator

For my tank I dosed to raise the Nitrates by 1ppm until I got to 5ppm. You can buy NO3 powdered nitrate online (I got mine at greenleafaquariums) and mix it up based on the formula they provide. So for my tank I mixed up 40g of KNO3 in 500ml, when I dose 30ml daily, that was supposed to raised the NO3 in tank by about 1ppm. So my tank consumed more N than I though and it took about a month to get there. Now I dose about 17ml and it keeps my N just about 5ppm. And yes I tested N a lot when first dosing.

The KNO3 is potassium nitrate. I would rather have some potassium going into the tank. The other one people use is Magnesium Nitrate?

I think most people who dose nitrate use KNO3. It's only $3 a pound so you could buy one of each and see which one you like.

As for how the calculator works. Convert your whole system water volume to liters. Then decided how much of a batch you want to make (I make up 500ml at a time) then play with adding grams (you buy the NO3 as a dry powder) of the NO3 and how much you want to dose till you get the number you are happy with.

So for my tank I have 1514 liters of water total. I mix up 500ml at a time and I chose about 30ml to dose (pick any amount you want, I chose 30ml because I felt I could easily measure that). Then just keep adding grams to the NO3 until you get to your target number (40g for me brings up the NO3 by 1ppm). It sounds complicated but it is actually pretty easy.

When mixing the solution. I add some powder then stir it up and then add some more and keep doing that until it is all mixed. Once it is mixed it will stay in solution until you need it, so you are all set. I used transfer the solution to a plastic bottle and then use that to dose. I now just use it in a doser and have the doser dispense KNO3 daily (during the day) into the tank.

In addition to dosing Nitrate to control phosphates I have noticed that all my corals have nice rich coloration. My tank is being restarted currently but all the frags I have are pretty colorful.

Any other questions just ask.

Russ265 · Sep 17, 2015

JBNY said:
I saw this post and wanted to share my experience with dosing Nitrates.

I have been dosing potassium nitrate in my tank for about 6 months. Right now my parameters are NO3 5ppm PO4 0.02ppm, These have been rock steady for about the last 4 months or so.

I first started dosing Nitrates as a means of controlling my Phosphates. To control Nitrates and phophates, I am running an algae reactor with Cheatomorpha in it instead of carbon dosing and using GFO. I found that when my Nitrates fell to undetectable levels, I could dose Nitrates in the tank and pull my Phosphate even lower, I was able to maintain NO3 at under 1 ppm and PO4 at 0.00 when dosing Nitrates. Those levels I was never able to achieve even when aggressively running GFO and carbon dosing. I have since moved to maintaining my N at about 5ppm and my P has stayed at about 0.02 which I am perfectly fine with.

When dosing Nitrates I am using the calculator from here

http://www.theaquatools.com/fertilization-calculator

For my tank I dosed to raise the Nitrates by 1ppm until I got to 5ppm. You can buy NO3 powdered nitrate online (I got mine at greenleafaquariums) and mix it up based on the formula they provide. So for my tank I mixed up 40g of KNO3 in 500ml, when I dose 30ml daily, that was supposed to raised the NO3 in tank by about 1ppm. So my tank consumed more N than I though and it took about a month to get there. Now I dose about 17ml and it keeps my N just about 5ppm. And yes I tested N a lot when first dosing.

The KNO3 is potassium nitrate. I would rather have some potassium going into the tank. The other one people use is Magnesium Nitrate?

I think most people who dose nitrate use KNO3. It's only $3 a pound so you could buy one of each and see which one you like.

As for how the calculator works. Convert your whole system water volume to liters. Then decided how much of a batch you want to make (I make up 500ml at a time) then play with adding grams (you buy the NO3 as a dry powder) of the NO3 and how much you want to dose till you get the number you are happy with.

So for my tank I have 1514 liters of water total. I mix up 500ml at a time and I chose about 30ml to dose (pick any amount you want, I chose 30ml because I felt I could easily measure that). Then just keep adding grams to the NO3 until you get to your target number (40g for me brings up the NO3 by 1ppm). It sounds complicated but it is actually pretty easy.

When mixing the solution. I add some powder then stir it up and then add some more and keep doing that until it is all mixed. Once it is mixed it will stay in solution until you need it, so you are all set. I used transfer the solution to a plastic bottle and then use that to dose. I now just use it in a doser and have the doser dispense KNO3 daily (during the day) into the tank.

In addition to dosing Nitrate to control phosphates I have noticed that all my corals have nice rich coloration. My tank is being restarted currently but all the frags I have are pretty colorful.

Any other questions just ask.

did you read my article?

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/help-my-sps-are-paling-and-i-dont-know-what-to-do.210035/

you are recommending exactly my experience

JBNY · Sep 17, 2015

I did not read your article. But I guess were are on the same page!

bneufelder · Sep 17, 2015

Yes, page 5 from a browser or page 10 if using tapatalk.

Russ265 · Sep 17, 2015

Pete polyp said:
This acro was kept under 0 nitrate

Same one the only difference was 0.5 nitrate for 2 weeks

can i add this to my article? sps paling one?

jpines · Sep 17, 2015

Russ265 said:
then you have a nitrate(or phosphate) deficit.

it doesnt take long and ive seen it time and time again. i dont even test my tank for nitrates anymore. if my rainbow acro starts paling (usually at 2ppm for my system), in goes the nitrate dose and i get immediate results in 24 hours.

others who do not have a "true" nitrate deficit will not understand.

As of yesterday, PO4 was "0" on Hanna UL checker and nitrate was "0" on redsea pro. Heading to lowes as soon as I get off work today

Russ265 · Sep 17, 2015

jpines said:
As of yesterday, PO4 was "0" on Hanna UL checker and nitrate was "0" on redsea pro. Heading to lowes as soon as I get off work today

please take befores and afters.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Sep 17, 2015

hawkinsrgk said:
Hi Randy

What do you think the ideal value should be?

IMO, it depends on what is in the tank and whether you have an algae problem, and whether you feed organics like amino acids. In most cases without an algae problem (and without dosing amino acids), I'd aim for 0.5 ppm, but each reefer might simply experiment as to what works best for them.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Sep 17, 2015

Russ265 said:
this is true for coral.

not it's symbionts that give the coral it's coloration.

Not sure what you mean. Zoox are golden brown. No other colors come from them.

Regardless, my point was just that the ratios of elements that any creature takes up from seawater is almost never anywhere close to the ratio present in the seawater, and there's no reason it should be.