Radical new treatment for AEFW

[Squamosa]

Hi everyone

I am having major issues with AEFW taking over my Acropora and weakening them to the point of death!

My tank has been growing out for 15 months now and pretty much looks like this...

I first noticed a tri-colour losing colour radically in my frag tank-which is plumbed together with the DT. I now consider this coral to be 'ground zero'.

Soon after, a green Acropora valida in my DT started losing colour, from the base upwards (always from the base upwards).
A quick dip in Bayer complete, revealed several large (4-7 mm) AEFW fall off the coral and a turkey baste in the tank blew off several worms too!

I immediately dipped all the frags in this insecticide and hundreds of worms were revealed, so I started turkey basting the tank.
A six-line wrasse was purchased and proved somewhat effective at eating the larger flat worms, however, the basting, I think, caused the very small worms to spread in to the other corals and now there is a major infestaion and I am left with little options.

As you can see the tank is full of Acropora and removing them to dip would mean a complete tear down of the tank and storage of the infected corals, that need re-dipping, this would have to occur over months. The rock would have to be thrown away or risk eggs being left behind that may be dormant, no-one really knows.
and so...

Full tank treatment about to commence!

 

[Squamosa]

When I dip my frags, i see the immediate dying off of the flatworms and also the later death of bristleworms.
Pods appear to only start showing effects after ~ half an hour and other tiny organisms viewed under the microscope appear to be unaffected.

In light of this I have decided to treat my tank, in situ, firstly removing all fish to a holding tank, removing all snail species, removing urchins and anemones, also removing as many bristleworms as i can trap or catch.

Once the tank is free of these animals, I will apply a 10% solution of IIMIDACLOPRID, the systemic insecticide active ingredient in Bayer advanced.
The poison will be circulated for 10 minutes whereby a quick 70% water change will commence and carbon applied. The die-off will be documented and any dead worms siphoned away!
Incidentally, I have observed that red Planaria are not affected by this treatment.

After 10 days, another treatment will be applied, following the above methodology.

At day 30, the last treatment will commence and the corals observed for die-off!

If I am happy that there are no more flat worms after a further 7 days then the fish and other livestock will be reintroduced.

To my knowledge this has never been attempted before!

Please, feel free to share your thoughts,
Cheers

 

[bknapp]

Best of luck! You're braver than I am.

I'm on week six of dipping to rid my tank of these pests. I still think they're more readily spread than people want to think or believe. I do find it odd that you don't see any planaria being effected.

Keep us posted.

Outstanding tank.

 

[reefndude]

I hope that works out for you. Beautiful tank...

 

[Squamosa]

Best of luck! You're braver than I am.

I'm on week six of dipping to rid my tank of these pests. I still think they're more readily spread than people want to think or believe. I do find it odd that you don't see any planaria being effected.

Keep us posted.

Outstanding tank.

Thanks

Many of my fellow reefers are now suffering with them and they are very widespread, even here in Australia!

I have done observations under the microscope and see dead flat worms with Planaria happily moving about, maybe a higher concentration or longer duration is necessary, but then you might run the risk of killing other species.

 

[Diesel]

As of my knowledge a in tank treatment was never successful.
Tektike did this with her frag tank where she had corals collected from local reefers on rocks encrusted,
She never got rid of the AEFW ever.
I had the same problem as you have but I removed all SPS even all encrusting's and some rocks.
It took me total about ten weeks before I moved corals back into the DT but it paid off big time I must say.
Good luck with your try and I would document every step for what you under take.

 

[Squamosa]

As of my knowledge a in tank treatment was never successful.
Tektike did this with her frag tank where she had corals collected from local reefers on rocks encrusted,
She never got rid of the AEFW ever.
I had the same problem as you have but I removed all SPS even all encrusting's and some rocks.
It took me total about ten weeks before I moved corals back into the DT but it paid off big time I must say.
Good luck with your try and I would document every step for what you under take.

Thanks for the advice.

I don't see the point in removing everything to a separate holding area, I will make my DT the holding area
I also do not have the room or equipment to hold large colonies of sps.

I want to treat everything including the rocks as I believe that eggs are laid on the rocks and may lie dormant and hatch after I reintroduce the corals.
Did Tektike use this particular insecticide or one of the commercial dips?

I intend to document everything, including video.

Cheers

 

[Diesel]

Thanks for the advice.

I don't see the point in removing everything to a separate holding area, I will make my DT the holding area
I also do not have the room or equipment to hold large colonies of sps.

I want to treat everything including the rocks as I believe that eggs are laid on the rocks and may lie dormant and hatch after I reintroduce the corals.
Did Tektike use this particular insecticide or one of the commercial dips?

I intend to document everything, including video.

Cheers

Tektike (cat) teamed up with Kate Rawlinson to do a study on treatment and the live cycle of AEFW.
The found that Bayer was the most effective treatment for them in a eight week cycle with a scheduled dip of every 5 days.
The sooner you get the small AEFW the more change the die-off faster.
Yes you are right on AEFW laying eggs on and in LR.
That said they never could get rid of the AEFW on rock when SPS was still present in the tank.
Yes they did exactly what you're planning to do.
If you have your tank without SPS they starve and with the help of some Leopard wrasses it will help as they will eat the adult AEFW who are looking for SPS tissue even during the day.

 

[Squamosa]

Tektike (cat) teamed up with Kate Rawlinson to do a study on treatment and the live cycle of AEFW.
The found that Bayer was the most effective treatment for them in a eight week cycle with a scheduled dip of every 5 days.
The sooner you get the small AEFW the more change the die-off faster.
Yes you are right on AEFW laying eggs on and in LR.
That said they never could get rid of the AEFW on rock when SPS was still present in the tank.
Yes they did exactly what you're planning to do.
If you have your tank without SPS they starve and with the help of some Leopard wrasses it will help as they will eat the adult AEFW who are looking for SPS tissue even during the day.

I've been following Kate's project with interest but the 'trail' sort of went cold eight months ago! However, I have emailed her to find out some more information, scientist to scientist

Mmm, interesting about the rock, I have noticed in my frag tank that the worms are now on the very small side with hardly any large adults or many eggs. In the DT it is a different story

 

[wangspeed]

You won't even be able to put your hand in the water! I picked a frag out of diluted bayer one time and my fingers were numb and tingly for a good hour after. Even a 70% change would likely pose some health risks to you.

 

[Diesel]

You won't even be able to put your hand in the water! I picked a frag out of diluted bayer one time and my fingers were numb and tingly for a good hour after. Even a 70% change would likely pose some health risks to you.

What kind of Bayer are you referring too?
Many hobbyist been using Bayer for the last 4 years now and this is the first time someone has a reaction from it.

 

[rovster]

I did I tank treatment with a tank transfer. I happened to be upgrading at the time. I did 4 in tank treatments followed by a bayer dip with minimal rock transfer.

I think a qt tank treatment with some dips at the end to "finish them off" before transfer back to display would be best.

 

[ReefMadScientist]

Very sad to hear. Hope everything comes out well.

Did you ever dip your frags before initiating them? Any tips for us who never had AEFW to never get them?

 

[Squamosa]

You won't even be able to put your hand in the water! I picked a frag out of diluted bayer one time and my fingers were numb and tingly for a good hour after. Even a 70% change would likely pose some health risks to you.

I've never had or heard anybody have a reaction to it!

However, I always follow correct poisons protocol and use gloves e.t.c.

 

[Squamosa]

Very sad to hear. Hope everything comes out well.

Did you ever dip your frags before initiating them? Any tips for us who never had AEFW to never get them?

Some were dipped, some not, but most people I know have them, one way or another.

I only noticed a problem once my frags grew into large colonies, perhaps impeded flow and lack of light penetration deep into the colonies, also has a part to play in weakening the corals, letting the pests take over from there!

 

[Shep]

I thought that Bayer did not kill the eggs of AEFW?

 

[ReefMadScientist]

Some were dipped, some not, but most people I know have them, one way or another.

I only noticed a problem once my frags grew into large colonies, perhaps impeded flow and lack of light penetration deep into the colonies, also has a part to play in weakening the corals, letting the pests take over from there!

I believe AEFW has to be initiated in the tank. I have seen many huge aquariums in public museums with towering SPS colonies and they do not have AEFW or maybe they do something we do not know...

 

[Squamosa]

I thought that Bayer did not kill the eggs of AEFW?

You are right, we also think that this is the case.
That is why multiple dips over many weeks have to be undertaken, to make sure that all eggs hatch and subsequent flat worms are killed off, thereby breaking the egg laying cycle.

It is also said that the eggs do not have a dormant phase, so when they hatch and start to feed, they are vulnerable to the poison.

 

[wangspeed]

I've never had or heard anybody have a reaction to it!

However, I always follow correct poisons protocol and use gloves e.t.c.

What kind of Bayer are you referring too?
Many hobbyist been using Bayer for the last 4 years now and this is the first time someone has a reaction from it.

So I normally use gloves, but I recall one time there were one or two frags left in a cup where I was dipping. I poured some of the cloudy white mixture out, and reached in bare handed for the remaining frags. Later on, my hand felt funny, and I had no idea why at the time. It wasn't until later that night I realized that I was only feeling it where I got the Bayer dip on me.

 

[ReefMadScientist]

So I normally use gloves, but I recall one time there were one or two frags left in a cup where I was dipping. I poured some of the cloudy white mixture out, and reached in bare handed for the remaining frags. Later on, my hand felt funny, and I had no idea why at the time. It wasn't until later that night I realized that I was only feeling it where I got the Bayer dip on me.

Sounds like an allergic reaction to the chemicals.