Radical new treatment for AEFW

Squamosa · Aug 7, 2015

Removed a tricolour and red planet colony this morning.

Dipped them and a snowstorm of tiny (<1 mm dia) worms came off (a hand full of large worms too), managed to get some frags but those colonies are no more

The frag tank is starting to fill up

You can also see the dip container and worms at the base, also notice the large amount of eggs at the bases of the colonies and also between branches.
Eggs are always laid on dead skeleton, so if you leave only live tissue the odds of having eggs are very low.

malira · Aug 8, 2015

Aefws love tricolor. My son's valida had them. We don't know if they came in on it because it took at least 6 months to show but it where we found them first.

bknapp · Aug 8, 2015

They don't only lay eggs on dead tissue, I found a cluster in the bottom side of a monti cap. And also need to consider that they eat the tissue and therefore are creating new places to lay them.

Squamosa · Aug 8, 2015

bknapp said:
They don't only lay eggs on dead tissue, I found a cluster in the bottom side of a monti cap. And also need to consider that they eat the tissue and therefore are creating new places to lay them.

Well you just answered my question if I have to remove and check my caps too?

FarmerTy · Aug 8, 2015

I left birdsnests, digitatas, montis, and stylos with no issues when I had them in my old tank.

x3m_coral · Aug 8, 2015

Squamosa, look at img_2457, most of the time you will find a very high concentration of eggs on the underside of acro base.
This is ideal cave for the worm to lay eggs and become fw eggs factory. I think you need to remove all acroporas and inspect the base, you can leave the acro in DT after removing them during treatment.
Getting rid of eggs will win the battle quickly bc adult fw can easily be removed through dip treament.
I would suggest dipping outside DT because for sure you will remove the adult fw out from dt. If you treat inside dt some of this adult fw will bounce back, again you will have
never ending scenario much the same as if you do not get rid of the eggs.
I am sure your beautiful tank will bounce back, just don't do radical treatment when you can dip each acropora outside dt and return back to dt for next dip schedule.
When you glue back the acropora to the rock make sure no void space on the underside of acropora base.

Squamosa · Aug 9, 2015

Hi all
Lots of useful advice and I thank you

After much careful consideration and once I had removed the 2 colonies to check on the damage, I have decided to remove all Acropora colonies and frags and relocate them to a Qt system I set up in my garage.

It consists of a large children's play pool that will hold ~ 150L of ASW (which I am making currently) and is lit by a 400W MH. I can add supplemental T5's if needed.
The protocol will be as follows:
Remove all colonies, dip in 20% Bayer solution, inspect for eggs and remove as many eggs present, also trim off any dead branches or bases. Place in Qt holding area.

Repeat dipping procedure every 5 days until 30 days have passed.
Leave for another 10 days and dip at day 40. if no worms or eggs are observed, remove and begin to place back in DT.

DT will lie fallow during this 40 day period.

The infestation is growing exponentially now and almost the whole tank is infected, one way or another

FarmerTy · Aug 9, 2015

May I suggest you just pour Bayer until it's so cloudy that you can't see the corals any more and then after 10 mins in it, take it to another bucket of saltwater and shake the heck out of it to dislodge any flatworms. I think the shaking in the water is pivotal as I find the Bayer usually only stuns them briefly.

I've never been able to overdose Bayer so I don't even bother measuring anymore. The only acro I've seen that has a reaction to it is acropora surhasoni. Even my delicate Hawkins echinata doesn't seem affected by it.

Squamosa · Aug 9, 2015

FarmerTy said:
May I suggest you just pour Bayer until it's so cloudy that you can't see the corals any more and then after 10 mins in it, take it to another bucket of saltwater and shake the heck out of it to dislodge any flatworms. I think the shaking in the water is pivotal as I find the Bayer usually only stuns them briefly.

I've never been able to overdose Bayer so I don't even bother measuring anymore. The only acro I've seen that has a reaction to it is acropora surhasoni. Even my delicate Hawkins echinata doesn't seem affected by it.

You are correct on the concentrations used as I've done a 50/50 mix and never seen any issues with corals.

I will have 2 buckets ready, one with Bayer and the other with clean water for rinsing before placing back into the QT.

The Bayer version we have here in Australia only contains the active ingredient Imidacloprid and remains clear when mixed!

I've also looked at the worms under a microscope after dipping and they are dead or as close to it as I can tell

Hawain_Rob · Aug 9, 2015

Would salifert flatworm exit work?

twilliard · Aug 9, 2015

Hawain_Rob said:
Would salifert flatworm exit work?

It works.. to a point

bknapp · Aug 9, 2015

Hawain_Rob said:
Would salifert flatworm exit work?

That product has no affects on AEFW and its general purpose is for killing off red planaria.

Squamosa · Aug 9, 2015

Hawain_Rob said:
Would salifert flatworm exit work?

It works on Planaria as far as I know!

PeterErc · Aug 9, 2015

I ran a few tests a while back with Bayer. The AEFW I had in my system were pretty resilient. The AEFW would come off in the Bayer dip and curl up into almost a ball, when removed from the dip and placed back in fresh salt water they would uncurl and start moving again. I was not convinced that Bayer would kill AEFW. I have read other threads were people were successfully killing AEFW with Bayer, which leaves me and others to believe that there are different types of AEFW. One of the things I do not like about Bayer, besides being poison is it mixes up cloudy, and I cannot see the AEFW come off the coral which is why I prefer Revive. Since your Bayer mixes up clear you won't have the same issue.
I was told years ago that AEFW will only lay eggs on the base of a living coral, which has been proven to be a fallacy. I would find eggs on the underside of the coral mounts and in between branches. It wasn't until I removed all the Acro into a separate system that I was able to rid the pest. I bought a pair of 3X magnifying glasses from the dollar store and would use a bright flashlight with a direct beam to visually inspect for eggs.
As stated above once the eggs were manually removed the process became a lot easier. It was a drag spending 3-4 hrs weekly dipping and inspecting for eggs but in the end was well worth it

Be sure too that you don't have a cycle in your QT system, especially if there is any die off of bacteria from the coral dip

FarmerTy · Aug 9, 2015

I had the same result, once removed from Bayer, they uncurled and were moving again.

That's great that your Australian version is clear. I had the same complaint about Bayer for not being able to see the flatworms coming off the coral.

Diesel · Aug 9, 2015

This will answer a lot of questions you guys have.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/aefw-experiments-and-study.138618/

and of course Adam from Battlecorals has done his part too............

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/aefws-a-cure-finaly.196942/

Reefnjunkie · Aug 9, 2015

Higher concentrations of bayer will kill the flat worms. If you opt to use Bayer as one person mentioned a very good shaking off the acro in a separate contained of tank water is needed.
Myself I take it further, the acro is dipped 10 mls per cup 15 minutes will get to g a good basting, then to a 2nd container of TW only no bayer and basted again, then onto a 3rd container just TW and basted again, and then swished well in a plastic bucket before going back into QT

The potassium chloride as a dip is another great method.

Good luck to the OP, I'm sure a strict QT is part of the plan going forward