Radical new treatment for AEFW
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Squamosa
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I live in Australia and from what I can tell (after reading the MSDS's) the Australian version of Bayer is different in that it is missing the active ingredient β-cyfluthrin (a synthetic pyrethroid insecticide @ 0.36%), it also contains 0.72% Imidacloprid (in a Ready-To-Spray and Concentrate version).
The Australian version only contains 0.125 g/L Imidacloprid and mixes to a clear solution.
The Australian version only contains 0.125 g/L Imidacloprid and mixes to a clear solution.
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Squamosa
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We don’t know yet how long it takes for the hatchlings to grow to sexual maturity, unfortunately!
That is something researchers like Kate Rawlison are working on!
We do know that juveniles should hatch out within 14-15 days (at 27C) and longer for my water temperature, which is 25C. I do know that they grow fast and multiply quickly but don't have numbers.
Then honestly that needs to be found out asap because your strategy might not work if the time between your treatments is longer than it takes for them to reach maturity. If they are able to hatch and reach maturity in the time between treatments then you will not be able to break the cycle :/
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Squamosa
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Thanks for your concern
I am in contact with Kate and have gone over the experimental design with her.
She too concurs that it should have a devastating effect on the flat worms and a treatment period of up to 50 days might be necessary to eradicate all the worms.
I have nothing to lose....except all my prized sps
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Squamosa
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I wouldn't take frags from me...would you
I have thought about it, but every one of the frags in my frag tank has shown infestation.
Everything must be treated and cleansed, I'm afraid.
I am curious what the full tank treatment will do to the water chemistry. Even with a 70% water change. There will still be insecticide in your tank. Will the bacteria survive and/or will you have too add some to keep the parameters stable.
If I were closer I would. You can rid and treat frags easy. Most do it anyway. Getting rid of aefw on frags is not hard, just time consuming.I wouldn't take frags from me...would you
I have thought about it, but every one of the frags in my frag tank has shown infestation.
Everything must be treated and cleansed, I'm afraid.
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Squamosa
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I intend to add carbon to the water after the water change to 'mop up' any residual chemicals.
I really don't know, but I'll speculate that the bacteria won't be affected and I intend to do the water changes with fresh NSW and any bacterial die-off would be replenished.
I would be more worried about alk, ca and mg fluctuations from the calrx.
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I'm sure you're deep into your attack plan so hard swaying you now but I would remove and treat instead.
Even if we can look past the potential health implications of having a tank that has been dosed with insecticide, you still have to wonder what the resultant nutrient spike will do once all deaths of the AEFWs, pods, brittle stars, bristleworms, and other critter populations start adding up.
The quick water change will potentially remove a majority of the insecticide but the deaths will keep coming. Even after double rinsing my frags after dipping, if just a few drops get into my DT, my pods are nuked for 6 months after.
If it were me, I'd buy a large 100-gallon rubbermaid tub, put all my acros and rocks in there, hit it with a super high potassium concentration of 1600 ppm for 30 mins, and use premixed saltwater (with matching parameters) to do an 80% water change afterwards.
Give the acros two weeks to recover and hit it again.
Even if we can look past the potential health implications of having a tank that has been dosed with insecticide, you still have to wonder what the resultant nutrient spike will do once all deaths of the AEFWs, pods, brittle stars, bristleworms, and other critter populations start adding up.
The quick water change will potentially remove a majority of the insecticide but the deaths will keep coming. Even after double rinsing my frags after dipping, if just a few drops get into my DT, my pods are nuked for 6 months after.
If it were me, I'd buy a large 100-gallon rubbermaid tub, put all my acros and rocks in there, hit it with a super high potassium concentration of 1600 ppm for 30 mins, and use premixed saltwater (with matching parameters) to do an 80% water change afterwards.
Give the acros two weeks to recover and hit it again.
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The high potassium is a bit harsher on the acros than bayer but not as toxic and I feel more effective. Bayer I've noticed stuns AEFWs rather than really kill them. It usually takes a super long exposure period for me to actually kill them, and I use a pretty high concentration too. We're talking so milky white you can't see the acro in the bowl... Milk consistency here.
The potassium kills them dead... I mean dead. No shaking the corals to dislodge them... just dead.
The potassium kills them dead... I mean dead. No shaking the corals to dislodge them... just dead.
ritter6788
Coral Fraud Private Eye
I wouldn't take frags from me...would you
Yes.
The method you are taking is very radical and likely will still possiby end up with AEFW in the end. I guess eventually you'd have to kill them all off but will the sps survive that long? Sounds like your mind is already made up to take the route you chose but I think cut frags, dip and QT is the way to go. I was infested with AEFW just like you. I got all my livestock into QT in a day and a little over a month had pest free Acros back in my display looking better than ever. Got rid of red bugs too in the process.
I'll be following along, best of luck!
Ty, could you elaborate more on this potassium as a treatment? This is the first I am hearing of it. I have read Eric Bornemans experiments with Lugols which is potassium iodide but never potassium by itself. Now potassium kills inverts and can kill fish too, so I'm concerned about the implication to corals as well.
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I'm swamped with work but here's some good reading. The whole tank treatment didn't work in the end but as a dip, it works perfect.
Like I said, harsher than bayer but everything I dipped survived.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/f...ank-without-dipping-them-individually.109477/
Like I said, harsher than bayer but everything I dipped survived.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/f...ank-without-dipping-them-individually.109477/
Montireef
Community Member
Yes.
The method you are taking is very radical and likely will still possiby end up with AEFW in the end. I guess eventually you'd have to kill them all off but will the sps survive that long? Sounds like your mind is already made up to take the route you chose but I think cut frags, dip and QT is the way to go. I was infested with AEFW just like you. I got all my livestock into QT in a day and a little over a month had pest free Acros back in my display looking better than ever. Got rid of red bugs too in the process.
I'll be following along, best of luck!
I fully agree. I'm afraid you will kill all your acros using Bayer directly in your display tank. You will kill almost all critters and unbalance the system, nitrates and phosphates will quickly rise and those who survive will seem brown turds.
I have had great success with synchiropus picturatus, they really love eating this aefw and prevent their propagation unless you start playing with the turkey baster (if so get a hexataenia or some wrasses). Synchiropus picturatus will actively prey on the accesible aefw (the ones inside the big colonies will require a good dip to be cleaned). In my opinion, preventing them from spreading is key.
Good luck!
Hi,
I am near the end cycle of Acro FW and seem to be doing well with very minimal losses far, however my tank does not look like yours as the FW inhibited growth and my system is fairly new (only 8 months old - my sps are quite young).
From my experience with these pests, in tank treatment doesn't work for AEFW... best way is to move all the coral to a holding tank and treat them every 5 days for 30 days. The idea here is to kill the adults then slowly kill all the hatchlings over time . The idea is to make a system which is friendly to work with in terms of removing coral and by having the DT empty of any acros (which is sadly most SPS); theese worms die in a couple of weeks if food is not present (i believe they feed on zooxanthellae)
The only other method is to house a nice selection of wrasses and use a turkey baster on daily basis and squart water on acros every day, also I suggest not feeding the tank as you want some hungry wrasses looking for food. You can also try some pipefish (I want a pair) as they are good coral cleaners as well.
Keep in mind the only proven method to clear out these pests is to dip every 5-7 days for a minimum of 30 days, the wrasses can not possibly eradicate the FW, just keep them at bay if they are trained to look for FW.
Also these suckers are mostly nocturnal which doesn't help much as the wrasses are very stubborn and they always go to sleep at lights out.
My SPS were quite small 1" to 8-9" colonies and had no problem taking them off the rocks with minimal damage. I setup a 20g long QT tank and used 60% DT water along with some biomedia filter I had in the sump seeding for a long time. For filtration I use wheel filter along with a nano skimmer (i also QT fish in this tank).
I used one of my old gen one Radions to light up this QT tank as I moved back to my T5 on the DT. Obviously there was bleaching and lost a small .75" and a small no name colony, but all coral seems to recover. I am a zeovit user and I have a feeling this helps with the health recovery of the coral.
Check out my thread on Zeovit Forum as it might give you some ideas on a QT tank
Also, I know this is a pain, but I strongly suggest running all new acquired coral through a QT for at least 30 days (I prefer 60 days)
I am near the end cycle of Acro FW and seem to be doing well with very minimal losses far, however my tank does not look like yours as the FW inhibited growth and my system is fairly new (only 8 months old - my sps are quite young).
From my experience with these pests, in tank treatment doesn't work for AEFW... best way is to move all the coral to a holding tank and treat them every 5 days for 30 days. The idea here is to kill the adults then slowly kill all the hatchlings over time . The idea is to make a system which is friendly to work with in terms of removing coral and by having the DT empty of any acros (which is sadly most SPS); theese worms die in a couple of weeks if food is not present (i believe they feed on zooxanthellae)
The only other method is to house a nice selection of wrasses and use a turkey baster on daily basis and squart water on acros every day, also I suggest not feeding the tank as you want some hungry wrasses looking for food. You can also try some pipefish (I want a pair) as they are good coral cleaners as well.
Keep in mind the only proven method to clear out these pests is to dip every 5-7 days for a minimum of 30 days, the wrasses can not possibly eradicate the FW, just keep them at bay if they are trained to look for FW.
Also these suckers are mostly nocturnal which doesn't help much as the wrasses are very stubborn and they always go to sleep at lights out.
My SPS were quite small 1" to 8-9" colonies and had no problem taking them off the rocks with minimal damage. I setup a 20g long QT tank and used 60% DT water along with some biomedia filter I had in the sump seeding for a long time. For filtration I use wheel filter along with a nano skimmer (i also QT fish in this tank).
I used one of my old gen one Radions to light up this QT tank as I moved back to my T5 on the DT. Obviously there was bleaching and lost a small .75" and a small no name colony, but all coral seems to recover. I am a zeovit user and I have a feeling this helps with the health recovery of the coral.
Check out my thread on Zeovit Forum as it might give you some ideas on a QT tank
Also, I know this is a pain, but I strongly suggest running all new acquired coral through a QT for at least 30 days (I prefer 60 days)
