Red Sea Fail, very harsh!! But truthful IMO.

[A_Blind_Reefer]

Yes, I’m not going to spend thousands of dollars on a product that could possibly do hundreds of thousands of dollars in damage to my home (and others’ homes).

There’s enough evidence out there that suggests the relative risk of owning a RS tank is higher than similar brands, and, even worse, explicit evidence that RS’ support for customers when this happens is woeful.

I agree except for the customer service claim. Most of the original owner, within warranty period (even a couple years over in a few cases) that have been posted on here were handled within the realistic conventions of manufactures warranty coverage. Of course no one would be thrilled with just a replacement tank with everything else involved with a leak, but that is the reality of warranty coverage. Older and or second hand tanks that are no longer covered under the original terms of the warranty, well…. Just the reality of manufactures warranty coverage. I feel for everyone that goes through a tank failure, don’t get me wrong. It’s just how the game gets played out. That said, if and when someone proves that the manufacturer willfully and knowingly sold defective products and denied warranty coverage there can be no other expected recourse. I just can’t get behind the horrible customer service claims being posted.

 

[c_ronius]

Just to try and inject some more useful info here... My gen1 625 failed recently, and I would defiantly blame the stand, and not necessarily the construction of the tank. The failure was exactly in the center of the unbraced sump area. It allowed that area of the stand to dip almost 3/16 over about 40". I did not notice it until the seam started to spread, because it is all black, and even though it was sagging, the doors still closed level and hid it. I feel the floor glass falling down, combined with the outward pressure of the front glass is the culprit. My seam separated from the top down.

I also find these threads useful, although easily cluttered with opinions. I wish I could of found more threads like this BEFORE I bought the RS.

MnFish1, you sure seem to have a lot of facts and numbers based on a few conversations with people the rest of us cannot verify. Can u back up any of these numbers with some actual evidence the rest of us can view? I can sure see how you have so many posts.

 

[MnFish1]

MnFish1, you sure seem to have a lot of facts and numbers based on a few conversations with people the rest of us cannot verify. Can u back up any of these numbers with some actual evidence the rest of us can view? I can sure see how you have so many posts.

I'm not sure what you're reading. But - I'll post again - what I said: 1. According to 3 aquarium maintenance services 70% of the tanks THEY SERVICE are larger RedSea tanks. (My guess is they don't get a lot of requests to service 10 gallon tanks) - so obviously their results are skewed towards larger tanks. 2. They stated that the failure rate of RedSea tanks is about the same as other rimless tanks - and that the amount is about 1% 3. I think a 1% failure rate is inappropriately high (i.e. it makes me nervous having a 200 gallon RedSea tank. 4. My impression is that there must have been 'some problem' with the tank and or the stand - or there would have been no Gen 2 tanks.

All of the information here is 'anecdotal' including mine - so I wouldn't weigh it any more or less than the rest. For example - your comment that the tank was definitely the problem - is just based on your opinion. Many others feel it's the front glass hanging over the front of the stand.

About 1.5 years ago - I had an issue where I had the symptom of being able to put the paper under the stand. So - in addition to talked to multiple sources including RedSea I applied their fix for the middle of the tank. So - since you asked, thats where some of my 'information' comes from. Additionally, I own a 750 XXL (about 5 years old) - and a 525XL bought in 2016. Have had no leaking problems. I will say Im not a big fan of the ATO. Based on my opinion, I would not buy another RedSea - nor another rimless tank.

PS - you can easily verify or debunk my numbers - just call multiple LFS.

 

[Cell]

I'm not sure what you're reading. But - I'll post again - what I said: 1. According to 3 aquarium maintenance services 70% of the tanks THEY SERVICE are larger RedSea tanks. (My guess is they don't get a lot of requests to service 10 gallon tanks) - so obviously their results are skewed towards larger tanks. 2. They stated that the failure rate of RedSea tanks is about the same as other rimless tanks - and that the amount is about 1% 3. I think a 1% failure rate is inappropriately high (i.e. it makes me nervous having a 200 gallon RedSea tank. 4. My impression is that there must have been 'some problem' with the tank and or the stand - or there would have been no Gen 2 tanks.

All of the information here is 'anecdotal' including mine - so I wouldn't weigh it any more or less than the rest. For example - your comment that the tank was definitely the problem - is just based on your opinion. Many others feel it's the front glass hanging over the front of the stand.

About 1.5 years ago - I had an issue where I had the symptom of being able to put the paper under the stand. So - in addition to talked to multiple sources including RedSea I applied their fix for the middle of the tank. So - since you asked, thats where some of my 'information' comes from. Additionally, I own a 750 XXL (about 5 years old) - and a 525XL bought in 2016. Have had no leaking problems. I will say Im not a big fan of the ATO. Based on my opinion, I would not buy another RedSea - nor another rimless tank.

PS - you can easily verify or debunk my numbers - just call multiple LFS.

You first said the 70% statistic came from your "largest in the city" aquarium maintenance guys. Then you said it was 3 LFS's. I asked for the names of the aquarium maintenance company and the 3 LFS's but did not get an answer. Care to share them? There aren't that many to choose from in MN...

 

[Dom]

Generally, it seems the stand was an issue for the G1 RS tanks. But as I mentioned in a previous post, there are probably multiple ways to mitigate the risk of failure. Maybe the G1 stand would have been just fine had thicker glass been used, or better silicone, for instance. I'm no engineer or builder though so I don't know for certain.

RS engineers clearly believe the stand was the culprit, evidenced by the retro fit support bars.

It would appear that the engineers have guessed wrong.

I've always been beside myself with the materials used on the Red Sea stands. I believe they are particle board, which acts like a sponge when in a humid environment.

 

[Cell]

Probably could have just led with that!

 

[boogie79]

I'm currently looking to buy another tank and have went to two LFS so far. They both pushed me to purchase a RS tank HARD, even with a few Waterbox tanks sitting in the corner. I mention the tank issues and was brushed off with, "they are doing updates to the tanks and promise I wouldn't have that issue." They really act like people don't have $$$$ invested.

 

[MnFish1]

You first said the 70% statistic came from your "largest in the city" aquarium maintenance guys. Then you said it was 3 LFS's. I asked for the names of the aquarium maintenance company and the 3 LFS's but did not get an answer. Care to share them? There aren't that many to choose from in MN...

I did not remember seeing you ask that question - but if I did I (apologetically) ignored it. Partly because I don't want to call out any particular company or their employees online. However, I am happy to say that if you google LFS that sell larger aquariums (more than one brand), and perhaps call for example BRS, RedSea as well, you can have your own database and post it. I have had RedSea tanks for quite a while with no issues, which of course is anecdotal - but since I'm in the position of getting a new tank due to a move, I asked more than 3+ sources about this particular issue - especially with regards to the Gen II vs Gen I issue.

PS - as @boogie79 said above - his LFS also pushed him to RedSea - despite having waterbox available - so I guess we can say at least some LFS seem to feel that the issues at RedSea are solved - perhaps they are just trying to sell expensive tanks

 

[MnFish1]

It would appear that the engineers have guessed wrong.

I've always been beside myself with the materials used on the Red Sea stands. I believe they are particle board, which acts like a sponge when in a humid environment.

You would be incorrect (in part) - the last time I researched when I bought my Gen I tank(s) - the larger tanks were made of Marine plywood (and confirmed on at least a couple threads):
"According to their web site Water Box uses "wood composite material" In otherwords particle board.

Red sea "All the REEFER XXL models now feature a laminated, plywood marine-spec cabinet for greater water resistance. Marine plywood isn't cheap but is waterproof.

I just assembled a 3XL stand. It's very heavy. Trust me very high quality. Not "cheap". From @Jeffcb

 

[C4ctus99]

Just to try and inject some more useful info here... My gen1 625 failed recently, and I would defiantly blame the stand, and not necessarily the construction of the tank. The failure was exactly in the center of the unbraced sump area. It allowed that area of the stand to dip almost 3/16 over about 40". I did not notice it until the seam started to spread, because it is all black, and even though it was sagging, the doors still closed level and hid it. I feel the floor glass falling down, combined with the outward pressure of the front glass is the culprit. My seam separated from the top down.

I also find these threads useful, although easily cluttered with opinions. I wish I could of found more threads like this BEFORE I bought the RS.

MnFish1, you sure seem to have a lot of facts and numbers based on a few conversations with people the rest of us cannot verify. Can u back up any of these numbers with some actual evidence the rest of us can view? I can sure see how you have so many posts.

I guess black silicone is a really good option if you want to see easily that a seem is going

 

[MichaelReefer]

I'm not sure what you're reading. But - I'll post again - what I said: 1. According to 3 aquarium maintenance services 70% of the tanks THEY SERVICE are larger RedSea tanks. (My guess is they don't get a lot of requests to service 10 gallon tanks) - so obviously their results are skewed towards larger tanks. 2. They stated that the failure rate of RedSea tanks is about the same as other rimless tanks - and that the amount is about 1% 3. I think a 1% failure rate is inappropriately high (i.e. it makes me nervous having a 200 gallon RedSea tank. 4. My impression is that there must have been 'some problem' with the tank and or the stand - or there would have been no Gen 2 tanks.

All of the information here is 'anecdotal' including mine - so I wouldn't weigh it any more or less than the rest. For example - your comment that the tank was definitely the problem - is just based on your opinion. Many others feel it's the front glass hanging over the front of the stand.

About 1.5 years ago - I had an issue where I had the symptom of being able to put the paper under the stand. So - in addition to talked to multiple sources including RedSea I applied their fix for the middle of the tank. So - since you asked, thats where some of my 'information' comes from. Additionally, I own a 750 XXL (about 5 years old) - and a 525XL bought in 2016. Have had no leaking problems. I will say Im not a big fan of the ATO. Based on my opinion, I would not buy another RedSea - nor another rimless tank.

PS - you can easily verify or debunk my numbers - just call multiple LFS.

The point I have made as well, is something you learn in basic marketing- People are more likely to leave a bad review than a good one. So while there is obviously a problem, it makes it seem like there are more issues than there are when you consider how many tanks Red Sea pushes out every year.

I am also very good friends with the largest and highest rated aquarium store in all of the Sacramento area...and they haven't had ONE customer come in with a blown seal. They sell more Red-Seas than anyone in the area. In fact, they have two display tanks full in their shop, an S1000 and 525XL.

Again, I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I am simply saying out of how many tanks they push out it isnt as common as you would think. Its basic Marketing. Bad Reviews> Good Reviews.

 

[Northern Flicker]

Again, I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I am simply saying out of how many tanks they push out it isnt as common as you would think. Its basic Marketing. Bad Reviews> Good Reviews.

 

[MnFish1]

Not sure what your point is here? There is a reason that this thread has 412 pages. https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/s...ea-reefer-series.219309/page-374#post-6085024

 

[Cell]

I did not remember seeing you ask that question - but if I did I (apologetically) ignored it. Partly because I don't want to call out any particular company or their employees online. However, I am happy to say that if you google LFS that sell larger aquariums (more than one brand), and perhaps call for example BRS, RedSea as well, you can have your own database and post it.

Call out? This isnt some situation where you had a gripe and exposed a vendor for it. It's a bit weird and perhaps disingenuous you keep touting this statistic and to verify by "call your LFS and ask", but will not name the supposed companies that shared the info with you.

I live in MN and there is 2 dedicated saltwater LFS's in the metro area, New Wave Aquaria and Reef Collective. There is one major aquarium maintenance company, Premier. I'm very curious who this "largest in the city" maintenance company you use is as well as the "3 LFS" stores, that perhaps I don't know of. There is no reason to hide their names if you indeed had these interactions with them and welcome verification of said info.

 

[MnFish1]

Call out? This isnt some situation where you had a gripe and exposed a vendor for it. It's a bit weird and perhaps disingenuous you keep touting this statistic and to verify by "call your LFS and ask", but will not name the supposed companies that shared the info with you.

I live in MN and there is 2 dedicated saltwater LFS's in the metro area, New Wave Aquaria and Reef Collective. There is one major aquarium maintenance company, Premier. I'm very curious who this "largest in the city" maintenance company you use is as well as the "3 LFS" stores, that perhaps I don't know of. There is no reason to hide their names if you indeed had these interactions with them and welcome verification of said info.

If you want documentation get your own information. It’s simple. That way you’ll hear it from the horses mouth the magnitude of the problem. If you get differing information. Please post it. Hey why not call underwater creations also.

 

[Cell]

I guess we all know the veracity of your 70% claim then. You even tried a misdirect at the end like UWC has anything to do with this conversation...

 

[MnFish1]

I guess we all know the veracity of your 70% claim then. You even tried a misdirect at the end like UWC has anything to do with this conversation...

Ummmmm.... Let's see - UWC builds aquariums - and is located in the Twin Cities. Last time I checked: https://www.uwcmn.com/services - which Is why I mentioned them - they also do aquarium maintenance. For the rest of the readers: "Let Underwater Creations, Inc. help you create the beauty of what you have dreamt and exceed all of your expectations. We pride ourselves in being the best luxury aquarium design, fabrication, installation and professional aquarium maintenence company in the Twin Cities." - I'm not suggesting that I contacted them - only that there are many more than 3 aquarium services in MN. https://www.yelp.com/search?cflt=aquariumservices&find_loc=minneapolis,+mn


As to the veracity of my claim - Do your own research. How do I know if employees from a company want it broadcast what they think? I guess I'm curious - perhaps I just don't remember - what's your skin in the game here? Did you have a broken RedSea tank?

 

[air_run]

Other manufacturers also have the front panel hanging over on their rimless tanks, but no rash of busted seams quite like RS is experiencing.

Yes, I believe the Neptunian Cube aquariums are almost designed pretty similar to the RS aquariums.

 

[air_run]

Which ones out of curiosity?

Neptunian Cube aquariums are almost identical.

 

[Sleepingtiger]

Without doing a Search, I’m seeing post on YouTube about Red Sea Tank Failures. I saw a Fellow Hobbyist Red Sea Aquarium, Beautiful Aquarium, but I thought it was Crazy the Front Glass overhung the stand, with no support.

the weight of the water pushing out the front, side, rear glass panels far far exceed the weight of the overhung glass panel. If the silicon can't handle the weight of the glass, it would never be able to withstand the pressure of the water