Red Sea Fail, very harsh!! But truthful IMO.

[MnFish1]

You care enough to keep coming here and arguing tho

dude youv done nothing but change your story to fit your narrative since this thread started. It’s ok we can all see it. And I do love it.

Hmmm - I thought this was a discussion board meaning different opinions?. And you're correct - I have changed some of my opinions about RedSea based on some of the posts here. IMHO - the main discussion point to me is 'do the new tanks offer as much value/protection as compared to other rimless tanks - especially larger ones'. I guess there are 2 options:

1. The fact that RedSea adjusted/re-worked their tank style suggests a larger scale problem than they have admitted - or-
2. They decided that the press was bad, and thought they had to do 'something' - even though (AFAIK) they feel it's a small number of affected tanks.

As @BeanAnimal said - it's hard to get 'good numbers'.

 

[flashsmith]

Some of y'all keep beating this dead horse. There was a problem. They addressed it with vast improvements. They replaced broken tanks with new upgraded ones FOR FREE. Many of those were out of warranty as well. Some were even bought used. So again other than hearing yourself complain what are y'all gaining here? I have a RS 625xxl gen 2. Never an issue. I've also owned and currently own maybe 6 IM tanks. No issues with any of them. Just don't buy a used gen 1 tank. Honestly putting 150 gallons or more of saltwater in your house isn't the best idea. You just need to accept Things can and will happen.

 

[Northern Flicker]

Some of y'all keep beating this dead horse. There was a problem. They addressed it with vast improvements. They replaced broken tanks with new upgraded ones FOR FREE. Many of those were out of warranty as well. Some were even bought used. So again other than hearing yourself complain what are y'all gaining here? I have a RS 625xxl gen 2.

 

[BeanAnimal]

It was a bizarre design choice. We all grew up in this hobby being told about the importance of equal weight distribution, and cringing anytime we saw a tank overhanging it's stand. Then RS came along an actually designed the tank/stand combo to purposefully be this way. I don't get it. I imagine someone very smart signed off on it, but why take that risk?

Ahh the "if they did it that way, somebody very smart signed off on it" reasoning

see 41°43′57′′ N 49°56′49′′ W

You would hope that an engineer designed their tanks (see above) engineers make bad use assumptions or fail to consider all variables too, but there is as much of a chance that they were designed without any engineering at all and simply "lets see if this works". Who knows.

In my case, aquarium damage was covered - with no increased premium. Many less expensive insurance policies do not cover damage. That said, many companies cover damage from an aquarium - the same way they cover if your toilet tank breaks when you're on vacation.

A toilet is an expected part of every house - an aquarium is not, especially a large aquarium.

Yes some insurers are FAR better than others and some agents and adjusters are far better at advocating for their clients.

The point stands - many (most) folks will find themselves not being made whole by HO Insurance due to a large aquarium fail (with or without listed coverage) and most folks would be doing themselves a favor getting coverage details beforehand one way or the other.

No need to head further down this path. It is also dead horse.

 

[flashsmith]

Yep and it seems like all the whiners have never owned one. So why all the crying?

 

[BeanAnimal]

Honestly putting 150 gallons or more of saltwater in your house isn't the best idea. You just need to accept Things can and will happen.

Sure - but wouldn't a reasonable person weigh the odds by assessing the information available before choosing a brand... so as to mitigate as much risk as possible?

Should one consider safety records of cars before they purchase? I mean, hurtling down the road at 60 "isn't the best idea" given the alternative of NOT. Your logic is self serving to troll people whom you disagree with.

Yep and it seems like all the whiners have never owned one. So why all the crying?

So the "if you don't own one your opinion and observations are invalid" fallacy? That is as patently silly as the "I own one and don't have a problem, everything is fine" fallacy....

I don't see anybody crying except those with losses. The rest sure looks like a conversation with many valid points to me.

 

[Northern Flicker]

Yep and it seems like all the whiners have never owned one. So why all the crying?

The owners are sadly contracting out new flooring and drywall, out of pocket The rest of us are just chatting about Red Sea's response.

 

[MnFish1]

Ahh the "if they did it that way, somebody very smart signed off on it" reasoning

see 41°43′57′′ N 49°56′49′′ W

You would hope that an engineer designed their tanks (see above) engineers make bad use assumptions or fail to consider all variables too, but there is as much of a chance that they were designed without any engineering at all and simply "lets see if this works". Who knows.

A toilet is an expected part of every house - an aquarium is not, especially a large aquarium.

Yes some insurers are FAR better than others and some agents and adjusters are far better at advocating for their clients.

The point stands - many (most) folks will find themselves not being made whole by HO Insurance due to a large aquarium fail (with or without listed coverage) and most folks would be doing themselves a favor getting coverage details beforehand one way or the other.

No need to head further down this path. It is also dead horse.

You have an agenda - go ahead - keep pushing it. it my very well be the correct agenda. It's a small percentage of tanks that leak. - Now I will give you the possibility that as time goes on there will be more. But - Until you can tell me the percentage of RedSea tanks that are exploding are far worse statistically than others - it's a non-issue. In other words - I believe you. but....

 

[MnFish1]

The owners are sadly contracting out new flooring and drywall, out of pocket The rest of us are just chatting about Red Sea's response.

Only someone without doing research would not have insurance against a large tank. IMHO

 

[Dom]

I'm guessing there are other ways to mitigate chances of failure when using this design, like a proper supporting stand for one, which we know RS did not have, evidenced by the retro fit kits.

So you feel the problem lies in the stand?

 

[MichaelReefer]

I'll stick with red sea. I trust my favorite store when they say they have been selling them forever and haven't had catastrophic failures. They sell all the major manufacturers so if it was that bad, they wouldn't recommended one. Time will tell.

I wont lie, these posts make me nervous- however I am extremely good friends with my LFS owners- They sell hundreds of these a year and haven't had ONE customer say they had a blow out *shrug* They are also very active in the Reefing Community in our area.

 

[Dom]

Only someone without doing research would not have insurance against a large tank. IMHO

I have several tanks, the largest being 145 gallons of capacity.

I have no idea if this is covered by my insurance, and I don't care.

When I first started in the hobby, insurance would cost me $300 per year more on my premium than I'm currently paying.

That's $6000.00 in insurance premiums that I've saved over the course of being involved in the hobby.

If one of my tanks leak, and it costs me $2000 to fix everything up, I'm still ahead of the game by $4000.00!

In the end, owning a Red Sea tank is a gamble.

 

[BeanAnimal]

You have an agenda - go ahead - keep pushing it. it my very well be the correct agenda. It's a small percentage of tanks that leak. - Now I will give you the possibility that as time goes on there will be more. But - Until you can tell me the percentage of RedSea tanks that are exploding are far worse statistically than others - it's a non-issue. In other words - I believe you. but....

I have absolutely no agenda whatsoever regarding RS. I don't own one and likely never will. I don't buy their products, other than their test kits which I think are quality. Mostly because I would prefer to purchase US sourced or manufactured products and/or those from EU or other favorable trade partners when possible. Given these conversations and my perspective (right or wrong) I would not buy one of their tanks because there are other quality options available.

You keep indicating that nothing can be determined without "numbers" and in the same breath saying that "it is a small percentage" and "a non-issue" without those same numbers. You can't have it both ways. I have already laid out my thoughts in this... agree or not, I am able to show the logic that got me there, as well as show where I think your logic and conclusion fall short.

There is no argument here - you are free to draw any conclusion you wish as to the sate of their prior tanks, current tanks and the chance of failure of old or new. It is just a discussion.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Only someone without doing research would not have insurance against a large tank. IMHO

I would be willing to bet that the vast majority... approaching 99% or more of aquarium owners have not contacted their insurance company and negotiated ANYTHING prior to setting up an aquarium...... or building a small woodshop in their basement, or any number of expensive hobbies that have potential to do personal or material damage.

Monster tank builders? Maybe....but even then?

 

[argiBK]

The owners are sadly contracting out new flooring and drywall, out of pocket The rest of us are just chatting about Red Sea's response.

Yes, I’m not going to spend thousands of dollars on a product that could possibly do hundreds of thousands of dollars in damage to my home (and others’ homes).

There’s enough evidence out there that suggests the relative risk of owning a RS tank is higher than similar brands, and, even worse, explicit evidence that RS’ support for customers when this happens is woeful.

 

[Cell]

So you feel the problem lies in the stand?

Generally, it seems the stand was an issue for the G1 RS tanks. But as I mentioned in a previous post, there are probably multiple ways to mitigate the risk of failure. Maybe the G1 stand would have been just fine had thicker glass been used, or better silicone, for instance. I'm no engineer or builder though so I don't know for certain.

RS engineers clearly believe the stand was the culprit, evidenced by the retro fit support bars.

 

[MnFish1]

I have several tanks, the largest being 145 gallons of capacity.

I have no idea if this is covered by my insurance, and I don't care.

When I first started in the hobby, insurance would cost me $300 per year more on my premium than I'm currently paying.

That's $6000.00 in insurance premiums that I've saved over the course of being involved in the hobby.

If one of my tanks leak, and it costs me $2000 to fix everything up, I'm still ahead of the game by $4000.00!

In the end, owning a Red Sea tank is a gamble.

Correct - and if (according to other posters here - the cost is 100K - you've lost money). My insurance costs no more or less with my aquarium - so I have a good policy - many people do not - and its probably a public service to notify them they could have huge losses if the have a massive failure. (isn't that the topic)

 

[MnFish1]

I have several tanks, the largest being 145 gallons of capacity.

I have no idea if this is covered by my insurance, and I don't care.

When I first started in the hobby, insurance would cost me $300 per year more on my premium than I'm currently paying.

That's $6000.00 in insurance premiums that I've saved over the course of being involved in the hobby.

If one of my tanks leak, and it costs me $2000 to fix everything up, I'm still ahead of the game by $4000.00!

In the end, owning a Red Sea tank is a gamble.

Agreed - owning any tank is a gamble.

 

[MnFish1]

I would be willing to bet that the vast majority... approaching 99% or more of aquarium owners have not contacted their insurance company and negotiated ANYTHING prior to setting up an aquarium...... or building a small woodshop in their basement, or any number of expensive hobbies that have potential to do personal or material damage.

Monster tank builders? Maybe....but even then?

That was the point of me posting it - They should. It's the same as those that own certain dogs. IE it was for education's sake - not arguments sake. BTW - a woodworking studio in the basement or garage would not be the same IMHO.

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

I have several tanks, the largest being 145 gallons of capacity.

I have no idea if this is covered by my insurance, and I don't care.

When I first started in the hobby, insurance would cost me $300 per year more on my premium than I'm currently paying.

That's $6000.00 in insurance premiums that I've saved over the course of being involved in the hobby.

If one of my tanks leak, and it costs me $2000 to fix everything up, I'm still ahead of the game by $4000.00!

In the end, owning a Red Sea tank is a gamble.

I would venture to say, just pulling things out of my rear, that a decent percentage of people paying for home owners insurance, term life, etc never file a claim….. think of the money that could be saved! I’m also thinking, again no science involved whatsoever, that a decent percentage of people aren’t in the don’t care if I’m covered mindset. Single family home on a concrete slab with tile floors vs a third story flat in a historical district where the historical integrity must be maintained (ie no pergo flooring) with two flats owned by others below you.