Removed Skimmer - Coral Coloration Increased

[Midrats]

If I don't run my skimmer, my pH climbs too high due to my kalkwasser usage.

 

[hart24601]

About this theme I have another anecdote: Recently we got two microbiome analyses done, one from the system with the skimmer and one from a smaller single tank.

In the system with the skimmer the analysis found higher than average DNA of Pelgibacter (name means "bacteria of the open sea"), a planktonic bacterium, while in the single tank without skimmer the analysis found no Pelagibacter at all.

I think the latter might be because I used only dead decoration material. Maybe, during the next water change I will fill up with water from the skimmed system with the high DNA evidence of Pelagibacter to introduce this important bacteria genus.

I don't agree that OTS is caused by a lack of planctonic bacteria. I think OTS is caused rather by rapid nitrification and/or other shifts in nutrients (iodine, phosphate, other trace elements etc.). It is easy to reintroduce bacteria with new life rock, and I think it doesn't work with OTS, but it is nearly impossible to remove the surfaces of nitrifying biofilms that form in pipework, rock and other deco, and sand. They "steal" the traces of ammonium that corals need for good health.

Hi Hans, I have been reading your posts and products relating to keeping higher phosphate levels and carbon dosing with great interest and have started down that path. Curious if in your opinion a small amount of carbon dosing is warranted with a skimmerless system that is based on chaeto export.

 

[mdb_talon]

Fact, https://fishlab.com/surface-agitation/
Mr Riddle did you notice a ph change?

Just to be clear that does not prove one is better than the other it is just extolling the benefits of surface agitation.

In any case whether surface agitation or skimmers provide more gas exchange is not always the same answer. Common sense tells us that surface area, tank size, skimmer size, etc are all factors that would impact that.

What is clear is that the vast majority of reef tanks are not completely aerated(not saying they need to be however). If gas exchange is the goal though then you clearly get more with a skimmer than without....again though whether that additional aeration is needed is another question entirely and likely largely dependent on other factors.

 

[atoll]

If your skimmer is adding CO2 which can easily be the case then nothings is being exchanged, you either add CO2 or remove it while possibly adding O2 but could you be removing O2 as well I wonder? I use an Oxydator so O2 is never an issue.
Untill a day ago I was using an efficent skimmer but my PH wasn't doing so well untilI hooked up my kalk stirrer. My PH is going up to 8.6. So now I have hit on what I hope will be a simple solution to prevent it climbing so high during my lights on. I will monitor it over the next few days to see if my DIY idea helps smooth out my PH and keep it around 8.4/8.5

 

[FishTruck]

Watch out! Sometimes, bright colors that happen after a major change in the system end up being the harbinger of something bad about to happen - makes my pants itch!

 

[2000se]

Watch out! Sometimes, bright colors that happen after a major change in the system end up being the harbinger of something bad about to happen - makes my pants itch!

Ha! Like an engine starting to run lean. Boy this engine is running great. Look at all of this power!!

 

[Pistondog]

Or open a window.

That works best, but is not always an option.

 

[Hans-Werner]

Curious if in your opinion a small amount of carbon dosing is warranted with a skimmerless system that is based on chaeto export.

Carbon dosing in skimmerless systems is no problem as long as gas exchange is made sure. I guess in your system you illuminate the display tank and a chaeto refugium alternating. Then gas exchange should be no problem.

Surprisingly organic carbon dosing also seems to work in skimmerless systems. I have developed all our carbon dosing products in skimmerless systems. I guess corals and filter feeders like sponges and tubeworms feeding on bacteria are the main sinks.

 

[Subsea]

Carbon dosing in skimmerless systems is no problem as long as gas exchange is made sure. I guess in your system you illuminate the display tank and a chaeto refugium alternating. Then gas exchange should be no problem.

Surprisingly organic carbon dosing also seems to work in skimmerless systems. I have developed all our carbon dosing products in skimmerless systems. I guess corals and filter feeders like sponges and tubeworms feeding on bacteria are the main sinks.

Would fish food be considered organic carbon dosing?

 

[J1a]

Would fish food be considered organic carbon dosing?

I would not consider it carbon dosing. Because fishes will make use of most of the organic carbon in the fish food.

 

[monkeyCmonkeyDo]

Not all tanks are the same...
I used to know a hanz I think. Grew coral in a greenhouse lol.
That's not u is it?!
Lol
D

 

[Subsea]

I would not consider it carbon dosing. Because fishes will make use of most of the organic carbon in the fish food.

What I like about fish poop is that enzymes & bacteria from fish food enter the microbial loop.

 

[Miami Reef]

Cool, though I suspect when you reconnect the skimmer the coloration will not change.

Interesting. If everything remained constant as before (same food input etc) why would turning on the skimmer not lead to the corals browning out to the same environment they were brown at prior?

 

[Hans-Werner]

I used to know a hanz I think. Grew coral in a greenhouse lol.
That's not u is it?!

I only keep tillandsias and succulents in a cool greenhouse. The only one I know who has kept corals in a greenhouse is Anthony Calfo.

 

[monkeyCmonkeyDo]

Ok not you. Lol. Maybe he was hienz? Lol
Kool guy. He supplemented leds over the sps and clamp tanks. They were the horse trofts.
Eastern WA. Like Spokane I think...
Lol sorry! Guess not u.
D

 

[monkeyCmonkeyDo]

Clam

 

[Hans-Werner]

Would fish food be considered organic carbon dosing?

I also wouldn't consider fish food organic carbon dosing since most of the organic carbon the fish takes up will leave it as inorganic carbon, as CO2. Mainly the slime and part of the feces are organic carbon the fish excretes.

 

[hart24601]

I also wouldn't consider fish food organic carbon dosing since most of the organic carbon the fish takes up will leave it as inorganic carbon, as CO2. Mainly the slime and part of the feces are organic carbon the fish excretes.

Thank your for the answer! Much appreciated! I know you don’t have the formula but I have wondered how much reef fuel ab+ is carbon dosing since they say it contains carbohydrates and vitamins.

 

[Dan_P]

Interesting. If everything remained constant as before (same food input etc) why would turning on the skimmer not lead to the corals browning out to the same environment they were brown at prior?

Because I doubt that the skimmer removal had anything to do with the color change.

Aquarists are fond of saying that “X causes Y” but rarely, if ever remove “X” to observe whether “Y” subsides. Moreover, humans are typically causal or undisciplined observers. Hence my conjecture that the skimmer removal has a low probability of being connected with the casual observation.

 

[Miami Reef]

Because I doubt that the skimmer removal had anything to do with the color change.

Aquarists are fond of saying that “X causes Y” but rarely, if ever remove “X” to observe whether “Y” subsides. Moreover, humans are typically causal or undisciplined observers. Hence my conjecture that the skimmer removal has a low probability of being connected with the casual observation.

But Dana is a scientist!