Return Pump Flow Rate Opinions?

Flow Rate for Return Pump

  • 10x

    Votes: 8 34.8%
  • 20x

    Votes: 3 13.0%
  • 50x

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 100x

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 200x

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 300x

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Other

    Votes: 12 52.2%

  • Total voters
    23

Dimmy007

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I have been reading many different opinions on what the flow should be. I'm sure there will be many opinions here as well. So what is everyone's opinion on what the flow rate should be for the return pump.

I have 110 gallon tank

jebao.jpg
 
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On my 60g display I use a Reef Octopus varios 2 around 700gph. So around 10x tank volume or less what I run. Dustin
 
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I'm unsure of your measurements... From what I've seen, most recommendations are between 3x and 10x tank volume. That'd be 300% to 1000%, right?

I run about 8x tank volume, about 1200 gph. Works for me :)

Triton recommends 10x, most older books and guides I've seen say 3x to 5x. Honestly, I don't know that it matters that much, as long as it's (A) not so much flow that it makes a great deal of noise, or blows stuff around in your sump, and (B) not so little flow that it is unable to keep the tank temperature stable.
 
I'd say 10x minimum because your pump may be "able" to push 10x -- But it can't get that flow pumping through 3/4 or 1/2 or sometimes even 1" tubing, then add the loss from the x-foot length pipe.. Usually 10x ends up being 5-7x. So 20x will get you more like 10-15x turnover.
 
I have a bunch of twists and turns before the pipe gets into the tank. I have a 90 gallon and I shoot for about 5x turnover. More than that serves no purpose IMO.

I use a Jebao DCP 8000. I’ve also run an Eheim, Tunze, Sicce, Cor-15 and a few other Jebaos. IME the Jebaos push the most water at the lowest wattage and are by far the quietest. To get 480 gallons I run it at about 48 Watts. My Cor-15 could only do 300 GPH at max on the same plumbing.
 
It is really meaningless as to what size pump based on tank size. What you want is to have enough flow for your sump and anything else you plan on using it for. If you have a 2500gph pump and a 20 gallon sump you are in trouble. Now if you have a 75gallon high flow sump you might get away with it. Macro in the sump needs some flow, but you dont want to wash it out to sea. Sea horse tank or 16 inch deep high flow sps tank with frag racks? The pump size does not matter unless its supplying all your water movement (as in no powerheads).
A little more info about your set up would help us make a better recommendation.
 
The size of your overflow and return pipe size/design is also a major limiting factor, it’s all about balance for your particular system, I for one see no benefit going above 10x and now I have flow meters and I’ve seen how much flow is reduced by pipework, I doubt many people are getting anywhere near where they think, unless they have very carefully designed their pipework
 
Doesn't matter. Lots of pseudoscience to 'justify' higher or lower flow, but there are plenty of successful tanks at 3x and plenty at 20x ... so it doesn't matter ..... Oh, I guess I already said that. Since I have yet to hear a truly cogent argument for more over less, I go with less because smaller pump means less electricity burned.
 
Doesn't matter. Lots of pseudoscience to 'justify' higher or lower flow, but there are plenty of successful tanks at 3x and plenty at 20x ... so it doesn't matter ..... Oh, I guess I already said that. Since I have yet to hear a truly cogent argument for more over less, I go with less because smaller pump means less electricity burned.
Before the truly silent dc pumps, I liked a slower flow because it usually meant a quieter pump.
 
It is really meaningless as to what size pump based on tank size. What you want is to have enough flow for your sump and anything else you plan on using it for. If you have a 2500gph pump and a 20 gallon sump you are in trouble. Now if you have a 75gallon high flow sump you might get away with it. Macro in the sump needs some flow, but you dont want to wash it out to sea. Sea horse tank or 16 inch deep high flow sps tank with frag racks? The pump size does not matter unless its supplying all your water movement (as in no powerheads).
A little more info about your set up would help us make a better recommendation.

My DT is 110 gallon. I have an Eshopps RS-200 sump. 2 jeboa wave makers. Jebao DCQ-5000 pump. Octopus classic 110 skimmer.
 
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My DT is 110 gallon. I have an Eshopps RS-200 sump. 2 jeboa wave makers. Jebao DCQ-5000 pump. Octopus classic 110 slimmer.
This is important information. I have locked horns with many people over the argument of return pump volume to tank size. There are a slew of opinions but here is my .02. Look at the equipment you have in your sump/return manifold: your skimmer, your heaters, maybe you have a reactor and a UV sterilizer. Let's say your skimmer can effectively skim 550gph, your carbon/GFO reactor 250gph, your UV sterilizer 150gph. If your skimmer is your most efficient piece of equipment and it can effectively skim 550gph, if you're circulating 800gph, you just pumped 250gph of unskimmed (dirty) water back into your DT. Think about how much your filtration system can effectively clean, circulate a little less than that and move water around in your DT with power heads. The reason for tank turnover is to get the unwanted stuff out of the water and bring fresh water and nutrients to your inhabitants. Engineer a system that does that, not one that meets some random predetermined number.
 
This is important information. I have locked horns with many people over the argument of return pump volume to tank size. There are a slew of opinions but here is my .02. Look at the equipment you have in your sump/return manifold: your skimmer, your heaters, maybe you have a reactor and a UV sterilizer. Let's say your skimmer can effectively skim 550gph, your carbon/GFO reactor 250gph, your UV sterilizer 150gph. If your skimmer is your most efficient piece of equipment and it can effectively skim 550gph, if you're circulating 800gph, you just pumped 250gph of unskimmed (dirty) water back into your DT. Think about how much your filtration system can effectively clean, circulate a little less than that and move water around in your DT with power heads. The reason for tank turnover is to get the unwanted stuff out of the water and bring fresh water and nutrients to your inhabitants. Engineer a system that does that, not one that meets some random predetermined number.
I agree with most of what you say, however you are illustration is assuming a skimmer is 100% effecient and they aren’t, some think there as low as 30% and there effectiveness varies during the day, depending on feeding etc. So if we set flow to this level your 550gph would become approx 185 gph would flow then be enough? I don’t know but I would want more flow than that..
 
IMO to have 10x or so through the sump is not necessary. And I've tried, many of the tanks at my work is old and not designed for that kind of flow from the sump and back.
This tank for example is about 10000 litres and the return pump is pumping 6000 litres per hour. I don't know if the results would be better with higher turnaround rate, but I think the tank works fine like it is now :)
IMG_5246.JPG


Of course it also depends on the bioload in the tank. If it's very high you might want higher flow and larger skimmer etc.
Otherwise I would put my money on buying stream pumps for good internal flow instead of a really large return pump :)

Edit. I know this post might seems to be to brag. And I know this is a quite large tank. What I wanted to show was that it's possible to do things in different ways. You don't have to follow all the "rules" for a reef tank.
 
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IMO to have 10x or so through the sump is not necessary. And I've tried, many of the tanks at my work is old and not designed for that kind of flow from the sump and back.
This tank for example is about 10000 litres and the return pump is pumping 6000 litres per hour. I don't know if the results would be better with higher turnaround rate, but I think the tank works fine like it is now :)
IMG_5246.JPG


Of course it also depends on the bioload in the tank. If it's very high you might want higher flow and larger skimmer etc.
Otherwise I would put my money on buying stream pumps for good internal flow instead of a really large return pump :)

Edit. I know this post might seems to be to brag. And I know this is a quite large tank. What I wanted to show was that it's possible to do things in different ways. You don't have to follow all the "rules" for a reef tank.
You are right on. I've never seen a need for 10x turnover. Smaller tanks I go about 4x to 5x and the bigger the tank the lower the exchange rate I can get away with. Anything bigger than 400g I find 2x per hour sufficient. 1000gal range+ I find 1x per hour plenty. And as your gorgeous reef demonstrates, less than 1x per hour is absolutely sustainable in multi-thousand gal territory
 
Doesn't matter. Lots of pseudoscience to 'justify' higher or lower flow, but there are plenty of successful tanks at 3x and plenty at 20x ... so it doesn't matter ..... Oh, I guess I already said that. Since I have yet to hear a truly cogent argument for more over less, I go with less because smaller pump means less electricity burned.

^^ This ^^

The problem is, everyone is of the opinion that they are removing dirty water and returning clean water, and that's not entirely correct. If you're flow could be low enough to see a major difference between your overflow and return water, once the "clean" water enters the DT with all the powerheads/wavemakers, it gets mixed. So regardless of flow, once your system is running, it strikes a balance.
 
Let's say your skimmer can effectively skim 550gph, your carbon/GFO reactor 250gph, your UV sterilizer 150gph. If your skimmer is your most efficient piece of equipment and it can effectively skim 550gph, if you're circulating 800gph, you just pumped 250gph of unskimmed (dirty) water back into your DT.

This is faux-logic. It's something that 'seems' like it ought to make sense, and is oft perpetuated in the hobby; but if you take time to think about how a skimmer works, it really makes no sense. Now, you did use the word 'effectively', and that may add some nuance to the argument; but the broad assertion that skimmer and return pump have some kind of synergy is untrue.
 

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