Shall I just give up and quit?

NewGoby · Jul 27, 2019

Prairie Reef said:
i had high nitrate and phosphates, used aquaforest phosphate minus, a bag of carbon and vinegar dosed according to a randy holmes farley post, fed less and all that pulled my numbers almost to zero. my experience anyway.

We're actually thinking that his numbers are already way too low, lowering further would be unwise. 0.03 phos is nothing

WallyB · Jul 27, 2019

This reply is if you have only have Cyano. If Dino's then my comments don't apply. (Big DIFFERENCE between Cyano and Dinos...KNow what you have before applying solution)

FYI.
My nitrates have been 50 in one Tank, and 100 in another. No Cyano. Corals fine.
So don't worry about nitrates (Like I used to).
I just Recently I decided to tackle Phosphates with GFO to keep around 0.1 since naturally my SPS Tank runs at 0.4ppm (Not sure if I actually needed to do that, but Hoping SPS grow faster)

Before I decided on GFO, I was thinking NoPox.
Since I hate Cyano, and noticed that it increases risk of Cyano, I decided to not use it.

I've had bad Cyano many times in the Past, and I learned that Over Feeding Tank (Corals not Fish) was the Cause.
I used to do Amino's daily in my SPS tank. Sure the corals colored up, but so did the Cynao outbreaks.
Now I dose Amino and Feed Corals once a Week.
Corals not as colored up but better, but greatest thing is No Cyano. It actually went away on it's own.

If you stop what is Fueling Cyano. Turn down, or off Lighting (short term), Siphon the Cyano out of your tank it will go away (without any treatments)
Be patient, since it will take about 6 weeks, and up to 2-3-4 months to really be gone.

One thing I used is Cyano Clean from ZeoVit. It's a bacterial that will outcompete Cyano. Not cheap. Speed things up, but it not a over-night miracle cure.

BTW. Looking at your photo, you don't have a major Cyano Outbreak.

This was mine. (Before and After...sweeping and feed reductions and some patience)

Of course, I never learned my lesson and got back into Feeding corals (Too much).

This was the result (WAY WORSE THAN CYANO)

Prairie Reef · Jul 27, 2019

NewGoby said:
We're actually thinking that his numbers are already way too low, lowering further would be unwise. 0.03 phos is nothing

for sure too low is not good, should’ve clarified, i dosed till i had bacteria blooms, knocked my cyano out, fed more to pull my numbers up a bit, in my case zero nutrients killed off the cyano, didn’t make it grow more.

MnFish1 · Jul 27, 2019

NewGoby said:
Both are normal during startup - and can occur after years, when worrying too much about nitrates & phosphates, I've had issues with them aswell, and went on to the nopox route, which made it way worse, decided to say f it & not dose anything, but instead remove them daily by siphoning into a net layered with filter wool, into a bucket to then toss the wool & put the water back into the tank, they were all gone within a month & haven't returned since (this was 1.5 years ago)

Same here. Sometimes constant changes make problems worse - though - your nitrate should be a bit lower. I would accomplish that with water changes - rather than guessing how to lower them using method a or method b (and risking overshooting)

WallyB · Jul 27, 2019

MnFish1 said:
Same here. Sometimes constant changes make problems worse - though - your nitrate should be a bit lower. I would accomplish that with water changes - rather than guessing how to lower them using method a or method b (and risking overshooting)

I agree with the Water Change method to reduce nitrates. (Best approach).
However if the Nitrates are trapped in Sand/Rock it will take time to leach the nitrates out.
And of course you must eliminate the Nitrate source (Over Feeding, Too much bioload), or else it will just spring back.

xiholdtruex · Jul 27, 2019

WallyB said:
This reply is if you have only have Cyano. If Dino's then my comments don't apply. (Big DIFFERENCE between Cyano and Dinos...KNow what you have before applying solution)

FYI.
My nitrates have been 50 in one Tank, and 100 in another. No Cyano. Corals fine.
So don't worry about nitrates (Like I used to).
I just Recently I decided to tackle Phosphates with GFO to keep around 0.1 since naturally my SPS Tank runs at 0.4ppm (Not sure if I actually needed to do that, but Hoping SPS grow faster)

Before I decided on GFO, I was thinking NoPox.
Since I hate Cyano, and noticed that it increases risk of Cyano, I decided to not use it.

I've had bad Cyano many times in the Past, and I learned that Over Feeding Tank (Corals not Fish) was the Cause.
I used to do Amino's daily in my SPS tank. Sure the corals colored up, but so did the Cynao outbreaks.
Now I dose Amino and Feed Corals once a Week.
Corals not as colored up but better, but greatest thing is No Cyano. It actually went away on it's own.

If you stop what is Fueling Cyano. Turn down, or off Lighting (short term), Siphon the Cyano out of your tank it will go away (without any treatments)
Be patient, since it will take about 6 weeks, and up to 2-3-4 months to really be gone.

One thing I used is Cyano Clean from ZeoVit. It's a bacterial that will outcompete Cyano. Not cheap. Speed things up, but it not a over-night miracle cure.

BTW. Looking at your photo, you don't have a major Cyano Outbreak.

This was mine. (Before and After...sweeping and feed reductions and some patience)

Of course, I never learned my lesson and got back into Feeding corals (Too much).

This was the result (WAY WORSE THAN CYANO)

what and how much were you feeding your corals so I dont get this!

WallyB · Jul 27, 2019

xiholdtruex said:
what and how much were you feeding your corals so I dont get this!

I was feeding the Corals (Reef Nutrition Oyster Feast) A squirt from the Bottle DAILY (roughly 1/4-1/3 Teaspoon).
Osyter Feast is super rich food, and daily was too much.
It was wonderful since my Pale Corals coral really Colored up. So I probably started doing more.
However "I think" for the Algae Outbreak there was another factor (Or perfect storm). I was running RED LED's on for many hours a day (and Red/Blue Light with High Nutrients is the perfect for Algae Growth). Too much RED light looks great but is bad.

And if you are looking to avoid other distasters and mistakes I made over the years....
I documented (the big ones)... here https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/9...cess★-every-accident-disaster-problem.326397/

xiholdtruex · Jul 27, 2019

WallyB said:
I was feeding the Corals (Reef Nutrition Oyster Feast) A squirt from the Bottle DAILY (roughly 1/4-1/3 Teaspoon).
Osyter Feast is super rich food, and daily was too much.
It was wonderful since my Pale Corals coral really Colored up. So I probably started doing more.
However "I think" for the Algae Outbreak there was another factor (Or perfect storm). I was running RED LED's on for many hours a day (and Red/Blue Light with High Nutrients is the perfect for Algae Growth). Too much RED light looks great but is bad.

And if you are looking to avoid other distasters and mistakes I made over the years....
I documented (the big ones)... here https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/90-gallon-mixed-lps-tank-15-year-journey-to-★success★-every-accident-disaster-problem.326397/

Thank you sir will defintely read it!

jasonrusso · Jul 27, 2019

I battled 100+ nitrate for years, tried biopellets, nopox, etc. Nothing worked, my fish are too messy. A sulfur denitrator is the only thing that has worked and it is simply amazing. Went from 100+ nitrate to 5 in 4 months. Now it is on autopilot.

Phosphate removal is easy, just run GFO or phosguard.

New sulfur denitrator working great!

Purchased and aquamaxx sulfur denitrator my nitrates were very high around 80 ppm's after two weeks the nitrates entering my denitrator are 40 ppm's and coming out are zero denitrator is working great. It only took the two weeks for the bacteria to develop enough!

www.reef2reef.com

jasonrusso · Jul 27, 2019

WallyB said:
I was feeding the Corals (Reef Nutrition Oyster Feast) A squirt from the Bottle DAILY (roughly 1/4-1/3 Teaspoon).
Osyter Feast is super rich food, and daily was too much.
It was wonderful since my Pale Corals coral really Colored up. So I probably started doing more.
However "I think" for the Algae Outbreak there was another factor (Or perfect storm). I was running RED LED's on for many hours a day (and Red/Blue Light with High Nutrients is the perfect for Algae Growth). Too much RED light looks great but is bad.

And if you are looking to avoid other distasters and mistakes I made over the years....
I documented (the big ones)... here https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/90-gallon-mixed-lps-tank-15-year-journey-to-★success★-every-accident-disaster-problem.326397/

I learned how rich the oyster feast is also. A little bit goes a long way!!

Lasse · Jul 28, 2019

WallyB said:
I was running RED LED's on for many hours a day (and Red/Blue Light with High Nutrients is the perfect for Algae Growth). Too much RED light looks great but is bad.

I´m probably run red LEDs higher than most people. Have no algae problem. But I have a lot of grazers. However - cyanobacteria is not an algae and the red variant even reflect the red wavelengths

Sincerely Lasse

Tamberav · Jul 28, 2019

Qasim said:
The tank is around 90 gallons and it started 2 years and a couple months ago

My parameters are
Nitrate 50ppm
Mag 1290
Cal 420
Alk 12.5
Phosphate 0.025

You are using phosphate reduction media but your phosphate is already 0.025...why would you want this lower?

You are dosing nopox but nopox can only lower nitrate with po4 present. It's not going to be very effective with your PO4 so low.

You have biopellets which work similar to nopox so now you are dosing both and again...low PO4.

Both nopox and biopellets are to feed/grow bacteria...cyano is a bacteria...so yes it can feed the 'bad' bacteria as well.

This is why nothing is working and most likey making the problem worse.

Qasim · Jul 28, 2019

After two today I took off the black bag off of the tank and everything is looking great, i toom out three big fish from the tank one chocolate tang, a sohal tang and a blue tang are gone to a friends tank permenantly. We are left woth 4 clowns, 2 brown tang 1 foxface rabbit fish, a filefish for the aptaisia, two shrimps one cleaner and the other is a red fire shrimp and a cleaner wrasse. The bigger fish are gone.

I turned on the lights and got a shot of the tank as a record for myself.

And one more good thing my feather duster just grew back another head that it detached a few days ago.

It has been three days I have stopped nopox the biopellets are there. And the microbacter lattice in a ro canister with a slow water passing through.

I hope with the removal of the bioload things will be lowered and I will continue to feed less. I will monitor and check back the tank tomorrow.

jaxredsoxfan · Jul 28, 2019

Glad things are looking better, I would just stay the course for a while and see where it goes. Good luck with it!

Ligeia · Jul 28, 2019

Scoral said:
Your tank is over populated. That's way too many big fish for a 90 gallon. You are fighting a losing battle. Best way to handle your issue is to lighten up your bio load, good protein skimming, some macro algae and some phosban in a reactor.

+

Ligeia · Jul 28, 2019

Scoral said:
Your tank is over populated. That's way too many big fish for a 90 gallon. You are fighting a losing battle. Best way to handle your issue is to lighten up your bio load, good protein skimming, some macro algae and some phosban in a reactor.

+1 to this. That's a LOT of waste being produced by all those fish. Cut your tangs to maybe 1 or 2! You'll see a dramatic drop in nitrates and phosphates

Qasim · Jul 28, 2019

Thank you all, for your inputs they are really helpful. Hope all will be better with the removal of tbree fish.

Ligeia · Jul 28, 2019

Qasim said:
Thank you all, for your inputs they are really helpful. Hope all will be better with the removal of tbree fish.

Yes! I have about a 100 gallon tank and am only planning on stocking with maybe 4 fish total.

Qasim · Jul 28, 2019

Ligeia said:
+1 to this. That's a LOT of waste being produced by all those fish. Cut your tangs to maybe 1 or 2! You'll see a dramatic drop in nitrates and phosphates

Yeah thats what i have done now. There is only one brown tang that I removed today hopefully it will help with the nutrient control as well.