Should sellers be responsible for FedEx delays?

[DeepWaterAddict]

I appreciate this thread. It has educated me on the viewpoint of the buyer. I've only ever looked at it from my point of view, and it is certainly different than that of a buyer.
There are some common misconceptions that keep coming up in this thread. But it would be impossible to educate every buyer on the reality of shipping costs/insurance/losses from scammers. So, logically, that means I need to understand the customer's point of view, and adjust my business practice to suit. Although our stated policy is that we don't cover losses due to delays, I've never actually enforced it.

Thanks for the education, and we will be updating our shipping policies to reflect what we really do, and also what the customer wants!

But I will ask everyone here who thinks the vendors are profiting on shipping charges, please consider what BoomCorals stated above. I never pay less then $45 for shipping out of State, and it averages around $50-70 for a small order. Plus the $5-$10 cost of box and packing materials. I have never made a profit on shipping charges.

Thank you TL Reefs! That’s so nice to hear from you!

 

[DeepWaterAddict]

UPS. Not offered by FedEx. Back to the question by the OP, the point is moot if the vendor uses the insurance. The cost to us of the insurance is factored into our shipping price of $19.99 for overnight delivery. Every package is insured in order to keep us protected and the insurance company happy. We work with them in that we don't challenge mother nature and we reschedule when weather is bad or when volumes in the system would likely cause delays. We can't always predict weather in specific areas and can't control for errors in the shipping system, thus the insurance. In a perfect world one could argue if they just did their job right why do I need to pay for insurance? Well, we know the answer

Hopefully this once and for all puts to rest that common misconception that you can't insure corals or other livestock.

Thank you Dr for providing this information here and perhaps this will help others find a way to protect themselves in cases of delay. I’m willing to pay a few extra bucks or more for every order to get it insured. It makes both sides happy why not. Especially for expensive orders better safe than sorry.

 

[DeepWaterAddict]

Coverage/insurance for shipping delays might actually be a good advertising point for businesses. I’m positive that the majority will not oppose to paying a bit more or having the option of paying a bit more to insure the package. That makes both sides happy.

 

[JaimeAdams]

For a large retail business I can see them covering the cost of the shipment. I see a lot of vendors and guys or gals on here who are simply clipping a small frag off of a colony in either their grow out or their display. In essence a lot of frags aren't really costing much money if any at all outside of normal system up keep.

Now if I buy lets say a bounce mushroom and cut it in half and let it heal it and then sell it to another hobbyist on the forum or something and it dies I would certainly not like to be out the $70+ shipping ( I don't have an account with a company) and the other half of the coral that I bought at retail price and was just trying to recover some of my investment. I know for myself and I think most people when we purchase from fellow hobbyists we are paying a below average price. If you want guarantees pay more and order from some place that offers it. Bottom line of how I feel about it.

I hate to say it, but the scammers are indeed rampant and I've seen too many posts in various places of people trying to get something and then disputing it. The photo in the bag to me is just a way to try and keep things honest. I work at a retail store and we do indeed guarantee our fish for around a week and usually I do not want them to bring me the dead fish back like some places. However my same customers sometimes have issues with their tanks that I try to help them with and I ask them to bring me a water sample so that I can try and figure out what is going wrong for them. I cannot tell you the amount of times that I have found ammonia levels, Nitrate levels off the test kits scale, specific gravity below 1.015. Alkalinity in the 5s et cetera. Someone killing the coral or fish due to their own negligence is not something the retailer should be expected to absorb. I have ZERO problem with vendors wanting a photo of the dead item still in their sealed bag within a time frame that proves it wasn't sitting on your front porch in 15 degrees for 8 hours before you came home.

 

[Tphill]

IMO, once you sell an item and take someone's money, you become a vendor. You have the same 'contract' to get that item to them in the described condition as any other vendor does.

That is the risk of selling. That's why I have literally a room full of basically new reefing gear that I will not sale.

 

[BoomCorals]

UPS. Not offered by FedEx. Back to the question by the OP, the point is moot if the vendor uses the insurance. The cost to us of the insurance is factored into our shipping price of $19.99 for overnight delivery. Every package is insured in order to keep us protected and the insurance company happy. We work with them in that we don't challenge mother nature and we reschedule when weather is bad or when volumes in the system would likely cause delays. We can't always predict weather in specific areas and can't control for errors in the shipping system, thus the insurance. In a perfect world one could argue if they just did their job right why do I need to pay for insurance? Well, we know the answer

Hopefully this once and for all puts to rest that common misconception that you can't insure corals or other livestock.

Thank you for sharing!

 

[Staggs]

UPS. Not offered by FedEx. Back to the question by the OP, the point is moot if the vendor uses the insurance. The cost to us of the insurance is factored into our shipping price of $19.99 for overnight delivery. Every package is insured in order to keep us protected and the insurance company happy. We work with them in that we don't challenge mother nature and we reschedule when weather is bad or when volumes in the system would likely cause delays. We can't always predict weather in specific areas and can't control for errors in the shipping system, thus the insurance. In a perfect world one could argue if they just did their job right why do I need to pay for insurance? Well, we know the answer

Hopefully this once and for all puts to rest that common misconception that you can't insure corals or other livestock.

Is it just a static price for this insurance on top of the normal shipping charge? Or does it scale up with the value that you put for the shipment? (basically how normal insurance on a regular package goes up with the value of what you send on a normal package). Very interesting if other vendors are able to get this insurance, looks like you did some specific work/case study......and have you actually had to make a claim against a shipment?

 

[Dragon52]

Excellent. Excellent conversation, as stated earlier I'm really glad to see some of the sellers involved.

 

[PacificEastAquaculture]

Is it just a static price for this insurance on top of the normal shipping charge? Or does it scale up with the value that you put for the shipment? (basically how normal insurance on a regular package goes up with the value of what you send on a normal package). Very interesting if other vendors are able to get this insurance, looks like you did some specific work/case study......and have you actually had to make a claim against a shipment?

Yes, based upon shipment value. Yes, used it for years, claims paid promptly.

 

[JaimeAdams]

Yes, based upon shipment value. Yes, used it for years, claims paid promptly.

Can we as hobbyists also purchase this insurance?

 

[PacificEastAquaculture]

Can we as hobbyists also purchase this insurance?

Don't know, you'd have to contact UPS.

 

[rkpetersen]

(but they are not making money like some would say because you have to calculate labor cost and the charge of the box which is around 5 dollars and can be a bit more than 5)

Heat packs, cold packs, and special insulation add cost as well. I don't think anyone's making money on shipping. Even the highest charge for overnight delivery that I've seen doesn't begin to cover the actual cost when everything is factored in.

 

[siggy]

I would wager most lose money on shipping. Not make money.

I have seen some fancy packing and boxes, one had space blanket bubbled pouches and another packed with filter floss that you could use, also fancy machines to seal the bags, heat/ cold packs and the BOXES! where do you store all the boxes? not like you can store flat! ...these are the things Someone who shipps
alot considers. I used to do a lot of online sales and shipped several paricles daily, it costs and takes a lot of your time.
I insure everything over $50 at my expense, the bank fees are on the postage cost as well and it all digs into the bottom line, If I tried to recoup all the costs, Ship cost/packing/banking transfer fees/time labor/e-site fees into the cost of the products I would no longer be competitive and have few sales and why I do very little any more.

I do expect Live Sales to arrive Live and in good health and hold the vendor to their Business Model, after all " You Buy the House you get the crows on the roof" and If I have to Sign for the package or comply with a 1 or 3 hour picture after delivery to be guaranteed I just move on to another vendor. I am not taking a day off work to receive a package.

 

[Mattrg02]

Can we as hobbyists also purchase this insurance?

This shouldn’t be the buyers responsibility. A lot of sellers seem to think that way, but it’s the sellers item until it gets to your hands, and in the condition agreed upon.

PayPal thinks the same way. I sell on eBay, not livestock, and always add insurance. It’s for MY protection, not the buyers. A dispute, along with a forced refund, fixes the attitude of most sellers out there.

As for 1 hour doa, I’m not going for that. Missing a day at work cost me wayyyyy more than any coral pack I’ve EVER purchased. That said, my wife is ready to take package inside our house, as well as float the bags for me. There’s no way she’ll be able to get a picture that clearly shows the condition of the coral, through the bag.

 

[DeepWaterAddict]

I’ve sold different things on EBay as well. Unless they reach the buyer safely it’s all on the sellers for both EBay and PayPal.

 

[Mattrg02]

I’ve sold different things on EBay as well. Unless they reach the buyer safely it’s all on the sellers for both EBay and PayPal.

And this is how is should be. The buyer did their part, which was to pay the agreed upon amount, in the correct currency, in a timely manner.

I once had a $300 mineral get sent back to me and misdelivered. I lost that rock and the money. The buyer felt bad and wanted to pay me for it anyways, which I refused. I refused all efforts from the buyer because he had done nothing wrong. It was between eBay and myself.

 

[Mattrg02]

Another thought: I truly don’t care what the seller has to pay, or the effort, I either like the price or I don’t. I really get bothered by sellers going on and on about their cost and all. Want to know what “I” have to do to get paid by my company? Didn’t think so

 

[DSC reef]

Another thought: I truly don’t care what the seller has to pay, or the effort, I either like the price or I don’t. I really get bothered by sellers going on and on about their cost and all. Want to know what “I” have to do to get paid by my company? Didn’t think so

It's still a reality though, if you don't care then don't purchase from said company. I dont see what your job and pay has to do with costs of a seller? This is a great discussion and see both sides. My view, I take responsibility for anything I purchase and read thoroughly before I buy. If I don't like the policy then I don't buy. I can't expect a company to change their policy to my liking. I also like to know costs and time a company puts in to shipping an item, information and transparency is good IMO

 

[Mattrg02]

It's still a reality though, if you don't care then don't purchase from said company. I dont see what your job and pay has to do with costs of a seller? This is a great discussion and see both sides. My view, I take responsibility for anything I purchase and read thoroughly before I buy. If I don't like the policy then I don't buy. I can't expect a company to change their policy to my liking. I also like to know costs and time a company puts in to shipping an item, information and transparency is good IMO

I didn’t mean it personally against a seller, but as a matter of business. Business is business. I’m not going to pay a seller more because he has a tough time figuring out the economics of shipping. In the end, I’m going to look at total cost compared to their competitors. If they have to spend $100 shipping a box, they’ll have to adjust their coral price to match the competition. I’m going to guess that most here probably feel the same way.

 

[Crystal Reef Aquatics]

I cover fedex delays. It happens, and in my opinion until I get the coral in your hand it’s my responsibility. My guarantee is also a full two weeks, not 1 hour of arrival. I know of at least one or two other vendors who have a similar policy. To me, this is how it should be. But vendors have their own reasons for various policies.

That is awesome coverage! Buyer can be 100% confident in a purchase.