Some fish should just be left in the ocean

[fishboys]

But it's so pretty!

What is this fish?

 

[Salty.Reefer]

WHAT is this picture?! This is so disturbing seeing how cockatoos are extremely intelligent birds capable of feelings.
I can't believe it do people actually sell them like this?!

This is just one of the awful ways smugglers try to get them out of restricted countries.

 

[fishboys]

You mean like the Napoleon Wrasse that can grow to 11 feet but can be found between 5-7" in a few places for sale.

 

[Spazzmle]

I would like to see feather starfish left in the ocean. I have not heard of anyone keeping one alive for very long.

 

[Untamedrose]

WHAT is this picture?! This is so disturbing seeing how cockatoos are extremely intelligent birds capable of feelings.
I can't believe it do people actually sell them like this?!

They transport them that way....clean them up before a buyer see's them in the local pets stores. Should note it's illegal, in most contries but still happening as to many people dont ask where the pretty bird came from..or how it go there.

 

[mr11]

What is this fish?

Orange spotted file fish

 

[reeferfoxx]

I would like to see feather starfish left in the ocean. I have not heard of anyone keeping one alive for very long.

I've never seen a LFS sell them either. Only facebook posts..

 

[Browner20]

FWIW - the death of these creatures in our hobby has led to captive breeding, aquaculture, mariculture, etc. As with any "practice", i.e. the medical profession, it is with trial and error that we all learn to be better stewards of our profession/hobby. Much has also been said on this forum about the new documentary that aims to paint our hobby as the sole reason for reef degradation in the wild.

I believe that everyone in this forum has/is invested in the long term survival of native reefs and unique reef creatures. I also believe that we are probably going to be the reason reefs survive in the future because we are invested.

I am the cause of death of two CBBs and one mandarin not to mention numerous other reef fish and creatures. This only furthers my resolve to push myself further into this awesome board, thanks @revhtree, to learn more to prevent this happening in the future.

Our social media culture: need info now, need to paint with a broad brush/ban everything that we don't agree with culture is the antithesis of progress. I bit on the headline of this post because of that culture but I also feel compelled to post because the exact reasons you mention for what I believe you support "banning" is counter productive and opposite to your objective. There are always going to be those who abuse to make a buck. If you have specifics on those people/entities I would be on board but painting the broad brush is probably not going to gain traction in this forum.

 

[jasonrusso]

First off, I think most (if not all) fish that we keep would be happier if left in the ocean. It is an endless paradise, but they do run the risk of predators and sometimes lack of food. We do our best to keep them fed well and healthy, but how long would it take you to exhaust exploring a 5x4x4 box?

I do believe that no one should have a shark. I've only seen cat sharks for sale, but in the wild these animals swim for miles every day. Even a 500 gallon aquarium isn't big enough.

I believe that last month was the first time a blue hippo tang was captive bred! Think about how many "Dori" fish have been caught and sold (and likely died after the fad wore off) over the years.

 

[jgvergo]

I love debating morality, but in this case it will only lead to ill feelings. For me, "moral" means I take serious responsibility for the life of the organism I put in my tank. I educate myself as best I can before buying and accept the care regime that I need to enact in order to care for that life. It does not matter the circumstances under which the life began, only that it is a life.

 

[jasonrusso]

I love debating morality, but in this case it will only lead to ill feelings. For me, "moral" means I take serious responsibility for the life of the organism I put in my tank. I educate myself as best I can before buying and accept the care regime that I need to enact in order to care for that life. It does not matter the circumstances under which the life began, only that it is a life.

I totally agree! Besides the snails and crabs (which I put in knowing full well my puffer and tusk will eventually eat) I feel terrible when a fish dies. I have a spot in my yard where I give them a proper burial.

I take the responsibility of keeping something alive very seriously. That life relies on me for everything. I have 3 dogs and 2 cats (no kids, lol) who I feel the same way about.

 

[eatbreakfast]

The ocean is no paradise for fish. The ocean is spending it's time doing everything it can to kill the fish in the ocean. Sure, some fish thrive, but if you realize how many eggs are fertilzed(10's to 100's of thousands per spawning event per pr of fish) and of all these just a small few survive. Take that to an aquarist that does everything in their power to keep a fish, even beyond their means alive.

Also, many fish reach 'capacity' on a wild reef. If a fish of the same species, or even same niche, arrives the established fish drives them away and the new fish is doomed, whereas if a fish is removed (i.e. for the aquarium trade), the new fish is, at least, given a chance to settle it otherwise would not have. Sure, it sucks to have a fish die under your care, but if that fish were not removed another would not have the chance to settle.

The aquarium fish trade is nowhere near as complete in it's removal of fish as the fish food trade is. If we as aquarists don't support responsible collectors they move from collecting aquarium fish to food fish. This equates to a difference of a few boxes of fish being removed for ornamental fish, to tons, yes, literally tons of fish for the commercial food fish industry.

If we truly care about what happens to the reefs, supporting responsibly net caught fish, regardless of how difficult the fish is in aquaria, is vital.

 

[Leslie Tabor]

I have not researched the moorish idol or the copper and, but green mandarins are currently being captive bred at Substainable Aquitics along with some others.

I tend to go out of my way only to buy captive bred fish. One exception I've made is my foxface.

From my desperately trying to find a source for captive bred mandarins I learned that just as many captive bred fish will die horrible deaths...not because of their special needs but because, we as their caretakers expect captive bred to be synonomous with "easy". Everyone expected captive bred mandys to just eat pellets and frozen food, when they didn't it was a huge shock. Then add the increased price for the captive bred dying fish and it was a disaster.

 

[nbagnardi]

anyone else think its harder to keep fish, healthy and happy, than it is corals? i lost an entire tank to ich/brook before, have had "non jumpers" jump, fish just stop eating... i agree with this idea, but as most said, RESEARCH RESEARCH RESEARCH!!!

 

[4FordFamily]

anyone else think its harder to keep fish, healthy and happy, than it is corals? i lost an entire tank to ich/brook before, have had "non jumpers" jump, fish just stop eating... i agree with this idea, but as most said, RESEARCH RESEARCH RESEARCH!!!

I don't test or dose really anything and I can keep some very difficult fish (due mainly to diet, experience, and proper quarantine procedures)

 

[nuxx Verified Sponsor]

I kept Cleaner Wrasse for 5 yrs. and the person I sold him to still has him, they can be kept with minimal effort Just a FYI if you haven't ever tried them

I will throw money at you if you can show me how to keep a Hawaiian Cleaner alive through QT

Common Cleaners couldn't be easier to keep

 

[Fourstars]

Maybe we shouldn't be taking any fish from the reef? I've been out of the hobby for a decade and sad to see not much has changed in the industry. It needs international regulation.

 

[BradB]

Duplicate

 

[BradB]

I am all for captive breeding but I fail to see how throwing a moorish idol in my tank is any worse than throwing a snapper in my frying pan.

 

[Nibejeebies]

From my desperately trying to find a source for captive bred mandarins I learned that just as many captive bred fish will die horrible deaths...not because of their special needs but because, we as their caretakers expect captive bred to be synonomous with "easy". Everyone expected captive bred mandys to just eat pellets and frozen food, when they didn't it was a huge shock. Then add the increased price for the captive bred dying fish and it was a disaster.

This would be parallel with the following:

Man gets dog from puppy mill with out knowing or even caring about the conditions, never takes the dog to Vet and feeds it table scraps as its primary source of nutrition. This guy doesn't know anything about the breed his dog is other than its fluffy and named "X"
Verses
Man adopts a dog from a shelter, takes it every 6 months to vet for check ups, keeps it up to date with shots, medications, feeds it a well balanced and proper nutrition dog food that doesn't have 'meal' as an ingredient. This man has researched the bred and knows its health risks, knows what to look for. He knows Life expectancy, he knows how much time the dog needs of exercise, of attention, of grooming.
​

To Lump all owners into either group is a mistake. I like to think Im in the second group, but Ive made some mistakes along the way (though not with fish but a couple of corals and a nem). When I got my mandrin, I watched the store feed it mysis. Thats great and all but I didnt consider getting it until I had a good population of pods in my ref as well as my DT. (Read Swarms in DT, and replenish/add more every other month to ref as a cya).

I feed mysis to my tank and all the fish (Including kyūkyū (mandarin)) every other day but I also make sure that my foxface and YEKT have nori strips every single day. That's because these fish are grazers and need to eat through out the day, not just at the time I decided to feed the tank.

This is because I want to be the responsible care taker. Owner isnt the correct word, as im not simply an owner of fish, cats, dogs, corals, inverts. I spend pretty much spend 95% of my free time, and even some time while I'm supposed to be doing other things learning reading researching and watching (youtube) information on the critters I care for.
They are not a possession like a car or an iPhone, they are members of my family and short of the crabs they all have names, and I care about each of them. And before you ask, yes all of the snails also have names. There's even a limpet in my tank that hitchiked in, his name is Spike.

Does that mean that I'm an expert? No. Does that mean I wont make a mistake? Of course not. It does however mean that I have and am continuously taking steps to prevent a mishap or mistake.

Nothing we do will prevent 100% of mistakes or deaths, but if we stop and ask or selfs what is the responsible thing me to do here, and attempt to simply be responsible then we can drastically impact that mortality rate.

While we could simply say all fish should stay in the ocean and while a valid point to an extent,(some fish should never be taken) but that would be just like saying all dogs should remain wild.

What the hobby needs is more responsibility from the hobbyist, the collectors, and the merchants. I wouldn't go as far as saying that we need a license to have a cube of the ocean in our homes, but, and I'm currently thinking about this very closely, a certification of some sort saying okay we have qualified ourselfs as this level, we know the basic/advanced information on this particular fish/coral/invert and I feel confident that I can be responsible in taking care of this critter.