Sumps

[seahorsegirl]

Hi, I was just wondering if you can get by without a sump? It's kind of confusing as to how they are put together. I know I need a skimmer though. I was looking at a pair of clownfish, and a couple smaller fish. It would be just live rock and live sand in a 55 gallon. I already have a filter and heater. I'm just trying to do some research before I invest in a saltwater tank. I do have freshwater fish so I do know I need to cycle the tank first. Any tips for a successful tank is appreciated too. Thanks in advance!

 

[Brad Miller]

Welcome to R2R SeaHorseGirl !
Many hobbyists run sumpless systems and do perfectly fine that way.

 

[reef lover]

#Welcometor2r !!

 

[Crabs McJones]

Welcome to R2R

 

[Rakie]

You don't need a sump but it's always better to have one for a myriad of reasons. Keep reading, you will discovery a lot more by reading and be able to better judge if you do or do not need one for yourself

 

[DFR]

You DON’T need a sump, or even a skimmer providing your maintenance routine and equipment is sufficient for your stocking.
Sumps are however not complicated. It is just a container that holds water to increase system volume (helps to create a more stable environment) and make it possible to use larger equipment and keep it all out of the display.

 

[Ruben's Reef]

!!! Welcome to R2R !!!

 

[Rakie]

You DON’T need a sump, or even a skimmer providing your maintenance routine and equipment is sufficient for your stocking.
Sumps are however not complicated. It is just a container that holds water to increase system volume (helps to create a more stable environment) and make it possible to use larger equipment and keep it all out of the display.

I wanna first say you are 100% correct, and I absolutely agree with all of what you said.

Now I'm going to explain why I disagree 100% with your totally factually correct statements! -- I don't like to tell this to new people for one simple reason... While you definitely DON'T need any of that stuff, it's all one big buffer that widens the margin of error. New people make a ton of mistakes, having better equipment and a setup beyond the bare essentials will help them as they blow through mistake after mistake.

On that alone, I would advise anybody new to get a skimmer, and get a sump. But again, you are 100% correct. It's just a tangled web of nuances this hobby. As well as having faith the new user won't get tired, or busy, and slack off (causing more problems).

 

[Maacc]

You can definitely go sumpless and do a hob filter and hob skimmer I am assuming from what you said about fresh water that you are going with a 55 gallon because you already have one.
As said above a sump definitely increases your margin for error.
Another option to consider is an AIO system. While a 55 will work fine the 12" width will be confining when it comes to aquascape and keeping flow moving around the entire tank. Again it totally can be done but a lot of people tend to like to get a bit wider, but it's all personal preference.

 

[lapin]

Hi, I was just wondering if you can get by without a sump? It's kind of confusing as to how they are put together. I know I need a skimmer though. I was looking at a pair of clownfish, and a couple smaller fish. It would be just live rock and live sand in a 55 gallon.

Howdy
Since you are only doing fish only with live rock, FOWLR you have the basic skills to pull it off. A skimmer would be nice to keep the water a bit cleaner. Charcoal also works the same in salt as fresh to polish the water. A sump is a nice place to keep equipment out of sight and to add some extra filtration. It does require having water go from the tank to the sump and then a pump to get it back into the tank. Something that require some planning. As long as you keep up with water changes and dont over feed you will be fine.

 

[Lovemyreef2015]

 

[seahorsegirl]

If I decided to skip the sump and skimmer, what are the differences in water changes versus with both? I personally like crystal clear water.

 

[alanbetiger]

Like others said, sumps increase water volume and hide equipment. My biggest personal reasons on top of that that is evaporation is seen in the sump so the display tank stays at a constant level so "looks nicer"
Water changes are sooooo dependent on size of tank, inhabitants, feeding schedules, equipment that there isn't a perfect answer for your question. I wouldn't say it doubles your need of waterchanges but more than if you had a skimmer/larger volume (sump).
I've had multiple Biocubes that didn't have a skimmer, but the back of the tanks work almost as a sump

 

[lapin]

If I decided to skip the sump and skimmer, what are the differences in water changes versus with both? I personally like crystal clear water.

How a skimmer works is you have a powerhead in the tank stirring up all the detritus. It gets into the water column. The skimmer takes that water and injects bubbles to make foam. The particles stick to the foam and it overflow into the collection cup of the skimmer. At best it will skim out 25% of the crud. In the old days of fresh water we used undergravel filters to pull the debris down thru the coarse substrate and up thru those tubes in the corners and then the power filter cleaned the water.
You can use a hang on the back power filter. You might have to clean it more often than if you had a sump with filter socks that would trap the stuff as it exits the tank.
Not sure what sort of filter you have in mind.
You will need to do more water changes to keep the water cleaner. With that comes blowing off the rocks and vac the sand bed.

 

[lapin]

Here is a sample sump. The siphon drains down from the tank. Most people have filter socks here to catch the crud in the water. Like filter floss in a freshwater tank. Then the skimmer to take out more crud. The middle is for plants ect that will help reduce nitrates and phosphates. Heaters and maybe a carbon reactor. This way you wont have to have them in the main display or hanging off the back. The last part is where the return pump is located.

 

[seahorsegirl]

How a skimmer works is you have a powerhead in the tank stirring up all the detritus. It gets into the water column. The skimmer takes that water and injects bubbles to make foam. The particles stick to the foam and it overflow into the collection cup of the skimmer. At best it will skim out 25% of the crud. In the old days of fresh water we used undergravel filters to pull the debris down thru the coarse substrate and up thru those tubes in the corners and then the power filter cleaned the water.
You can use a hang on the back power filter. You might have to clean it more often than if you had a sump with filter socks that would trap the stuff as it exits the tank.
Not sure what sort of filter you have in mind.
You will need to do more water changes to keep the water cleaner. With that comes blowing off the rocks and vac the sand bed.

Right now I just have a Marineland Emperor 400 Biowheel filter. I was looking at a few other filters tonight including a powerhead. I'm not 100% certain if I should get a second one but I think if I add a powerhead to the other side, it'd help. The 400 isn't strong enough for the other half.

 

[lapin]

Right now I just have a Marineland Emperor 400 Biowheel filter. I was looking at a few other filters tonight including a powerhead. I'm not 100% certain if I should get a second one but I think if I add a powerhead to the other side, it'd help. The 400 isn't strong enough for the other half.

The 400 will be fine to filter the whole tank. You will want to get a wave maker style of powerhead. 1 of these on each end will work to keep the current moving like in a reef. You want to avoid "dead spots" where unwanted algae will grow.
Very Good:
https://www.amazon.com/Jebao-PP-Wav...ZHWT8B88R33&psc=1&refRID=57A0FS4Y7ZHWT8B88R33

Good:
https://www.amazon.com/Hydor-Koralia-Evolution-Aquarium-Circulation/dp/B0036RXO3O/ref=sr_1_8?crid=16M0KATU7PUJH&keywords=wave+makers+for+aquariums&qid=1550798848&s=pet-supplies&sprefix=wave+maker,pets,244&sr=1-8

Cheap May not last long. I had a 4 pack to cycle rock in 100 gallon tubs. 1 died after about 2 months. Suction cup is not the best.
https://www.amazon.com/Sunsun-Submersible-Circulation-Power-Piece/dp/B00YYIHGVA?th=1

 

[seahorsegirl]

Does anyone know if Seachem Stability will help with saltwater tanks? I know the live rocks do most of the filtering and such but thought it'd boost it. But as far as trace minerals, do I need those if I don't have coral?

 

[lapin]

Does anyone know if Seachem Stability will help with saltwater tanks? I know the live rocks do most of the filtering and such but thought it'd boost it.

It can help. I think they recommend it once a month for maintance or after water changes. It is not a mandatory addition once your tank has cycled. It wont hurt anything.

As far as trace minerals, do I need those if I don't have coral?

You do not need trace minerals for a fish only tank. Live food would be nice.

 

[PatW]

Sumps are great for holding equipment. You can use a cheap glass aquarium for a sump and put in baffles made of glass held in place with silicon caulk. You could do a 3 chambered sump with filter sock then skimmer and then return. Or add another chamber for a refugium.

You don’t have to have a sump but they are popular for a number of reasons.