To closed loop or not?

[Upstartreefer]

I am going to start a new tank when my house is finished being built. My new tank will be a 72x30x24. I have been collecting all my equipment over the last year and I'm still debating I'm going with a closed loop system to keep my tank clean without the use of power heads. My question is with today's power heads being smaller and able to move massive amounts of water and controllability is a closed loop system a thing of the past. I appreciate any comment because I have been racking my brain over this for over a year.

Thanks

 

[menglish]

Yep.
with gyre, all these DC pumps. You can now move a lot of water for real cheap.

 

[SteveSTL]

Besides what @menglish said about Vortechs and Gyres, you can build foam walls from rock rubble and make the powerheads virtually disappear. Another plus is that they use almost no power so in the event of a power failure they can run for quite a while on a UPS.

 

[Upstartreefer]

The only problem I would have with the gyre or something like a vortech is the ability to turn the head for certain flow in areas of the tank. Thanks for the Fast Response

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Im not sure I see a down side to closed loop. The new school is easier yes. And you can add powerheads to a closed loop as well.
add a couple Tunze or the jebao knockoffs(they can be pointed better) vortec OR gyre to it to add controllability and movement..plus dc back up.
IMO it really depends on the design of the tank and rockwork AND understanding that each type of head does different things.
thats the key that the guy (scientist) who inspired, worked with and helped design the gyre helped me learn about mass water flow and turbulence.

im curious now. its actually on my list for the dream tank(so is a RUGF)

#reefsquad, any downsides to a closed loop system?

 

[Brew12]

any downsides to a closed loop system?

One huge downside. It requires PVC work! I always get primer all over everything when I do PVC work!

My dream tank also would have a closed loop system. Better distribution of flow imo and no big pumps in or on the side of the tank. Everything can be hid with a modest canopy.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

@Brew12 you though i was nuts before, now the real secrets come out

 

[redfishbluefish]

Closed loop were common on large tanks where powerheads couldn't supply the flow. A six foot tank is a flip of the coin as far as I'm concerned. The one downside is that the pumps to run them tended to be power hogs. Maybe with these newer DC pumps, the power consumption would be less...have to look into that. Otherwise, go for it.

 

[Brew12]

@Brew12 you though i was nuts before, now the real secrets come out

Most of your ideas have way too much common sense to be nuts. Nuts tends to be what you advocate against which is throwing more money at reef problems hoping to compensate for not doing the basics well. In this case, a well designed closed loop is just as good, if not better than, a much more expensive combination of powerheads imo.

 

[Brew12]

Closed loop were common on large tanks were powerheads couldn't supply the flow. A six foot tank is a flip of the coin as far as I'm concerned. The one downside is that the pumps to run them tended to be power hogs. Maybe with these newer DC pumps, the power consumption would be less...have to look into that. Otherwise, go for it.

DC would be the way to go. You could have all the advantages of varying flow if you controlled it with an Apex (or similar).

 

[dbl]

I personally still love CL systems, if done correctly, as I hate the look of power heads in a display. That's just my opinion. Take a look at the thread below. It got a little side tracked towards the end regarding the whole AC vs. DC pump issues, so just read past that stuff. You might find some of the information interesting.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/are-closed-loops-becoming-obsolete.217544/

 

[Upstartreefer]

Thanks for all the replies y'all giving me a lot to think about. I agree that a closed loop system with no power heads will be great. I have no problem doing PVC work. Y'all are right about the loud Workhorse pumps that you have to use for a closed loop system. I want to incorporate and oceans motions on my return from my sump and my closed loop system. I am planning on my rock work to be minimal so I'd imagine with a 5000 gph closed-loop pump and around a thousand gallons coming from my sump that gives me about 30 times turn over in my tank. That should be enough for a mixed Reef?

I want to say thank you again for the quick responses and for the good ideas

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Im not up on the closed loop gph yet.
another CL thread. https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/should-i-consider-a-closed-loop.246761/#post-2897910
Lionfihlair didnt like her ocean motions.

 

[Upstartreefer]

Thanks saltyfilmfolks that is a good thread. I have found very few people that had trouble out of oceans motions but it's like everything else there is bad and good with every product ( the lemon Factor)

So if I decide to go closed loop and wanted to skip the oceans motions and the big Power craving pumps I could go with the vertec L1 and have it do like the power heads and alternates the flow.

 

[Brew12]

Thanks saltyfilmfolks that is a good thread. I have found very few people that had trouble out of oceans motions but it's like everything else there is bad and good with every product ( the lemon Factor)

So if I decide to go closed loop and wanted to skip the oceans motions and the big Power craving pumps I could go with the vertec L1 and have it do like the power heads and alternates the flow.

At the risk of opening up a can of worms, there are plenty of great reasons to go with a DC pump. Energy savings are not one of them.

 

[dbl]

So if I decide to go closed loop and wanted to skip the oceans motions and the big Power craving pumps I could go with the vertec L1 and have it do like the power heads and alternates the flow.

At the risk of opening up a can of worms, there are plenty of great reasons to go with a DC pump. Energy savings are not one of them.

That's the turn the thread I posted earlier took! Not a can of worms I'm interested in digging through either. But to your point @Upstartreefer, yes, using one of the newer DC pumps (like the Vertec L1 as an example) gives you control the older pumps didn't offer. But the largest benefit, at least in my opinion, is the quiet operation, especially compared to the older AC pumps.

 

[Upstartreefer]

No worms coming out here either. I'm just trying to get information from seasoned reefers that have been there and done that.

I have been on Reef2reef a while now reading post trying to learn the most I can. Everyone here that I have come across has always been nice and giving their honest opinion and that's how we learn from people more experience.

So as of right now here's my idea if I go closed loop system. Have 2 suction lines coming off the back about a quarter of the way down the tank a Vectra L1 pump on each line with three splits off each pump. II outlets on the back of the glass and two on each side of the Aquarium of the tank. With the controllability of the pumps I can very my flow greatly. And that will still be around 6000 gallons an hour because the pumps will be so close to their Outlet of course minus the head pressure off the elbows. Thoughts?

 

[Brew12]

No worms coming out here either. I'm just trying to get information from seasoned reefers that have been there and done that.

I have been on Reef2reef a while now reading post trying to learn the most I can. Everyone here that I have come across has always been nice and giving their honest opinion and that's how we learn from people more experience.

So as of right now here's my idea if I go closed loop system. Have 2 suction lines coming off the back about a quarter of the way down the tank a Vectra L1 pump on each line with three splits off each pump. II outlets on the back of the glass and two on each side of the Aquarium of the tank. With the controllability of the pumps I can very my flow greatly. And that will still be around 6000 gallons an hour because the pumps will be so close to their Outlet of course minus the head pressure off the elbows. Thoughts?

I wouldn't expect to get that much flow, but 5500gph might be reasonable. I think your flow options will be awesome.

 

[Upstartreefer]

Sorry @Brew12 I was adding my sump return flow in that 6000 gph. So that is around 30 times turn over. From what I understand most people shoot for 20 - 50 x turnover rate. All my 75 mixed Reef I have now I have about 25 and everything is doing great.

 

[Brew12]

Sorry @Brew12 I was adding my sump return flow in that 6000 gph. So that is around 30 times turn over. From what I understand most people shoot for 20 - 50 x turnover rate. All my 75 mixed Reef I have now I have about 25 and everything is doing great.

Good information if you haven't seen it.