To closed loop or not?

Drakonis · Dec 6, 2016

So im gonna toss a random thought out in regard to propeller turbulance vs CL output. what if you put a propeller on the CL outlet that the flow spun up and the propeller just acted as a means to create turbulance and such.

Brew12 · Dec 6, 2016

Drakonis said:
So im gonna toss a random thought out in regard to propeller turbulance vs CL output. what if you put a propeller on the CL outlet that the flow spun up and the propeller just acted as a means to create turbulance and such.

pushing the impeller with water will create some turbulence but it can't replicate the chaotic pressure surges of the impeller pushing the water.

Drakonis · Dec 6, 2016

Brew12 said:
pushing the impeller with water will create some turbulence but it can't replicate the chaotic pressure surges of the impeller pushing the water.

Even if there was static resistance on the propeller so it didnt free wheel?

Brew12 · Dec 6, 2016

Drakonis said:
Even if there was static resistance on the propeller so it didnt free wheel?

You might be able to improve the turbulence if you used a rusty bearing to offer constantly changing resistance. I just don't think the fluid dynamics would be able to be duplicated completely with a resistance device.
I'm not sure how much it matters though. The Gyre pumps are gaining in popularity and they offer much less turbulence than a traditional power head. I guess it is a matter of personal preference.

cbear44 · Dec 6, 2016

I'm in the process of figuring out the flow in my 180g. My first big tank and I've been out of the hobby for 8 years or so. CL were the rage back in the day.

Consider a sea swirl if you run a closed loop - I feel that direction of flow may be as important as rate and the turbulence generated by the sea-swirl is quite good. I have 1 on my return which is putting about about 1200gph and am about to get another to place one in the back corner and the other in the front corner. Then I'll run 2 MP40's to finish off the tank flow. Maybe I'll convert it to a CL someday - I could see outputting to 2 sea swirls and really increasing the flow would be great.

Anyone with experience with educators? Is this really like a laser beam of flow or is it wide? I'm considering adding to my sea swirls

saltyfilmfolks · Dec 6, 2016

Upstartreefer said:
If your closed loop is only circulating water in the main display how would that effect your sump?

The water has to come from somewhere and go somewhere no?

justingraham · Dec 6, 2016

I'm going closed loop with two vectra m1s attached to two sea swirls. Same price as two mp 40s with the same if not more controllability plus I will be able to see my whole tank.

justingraham · Dec 6, 2016

saltyfilmfolks said:
The water has to come from somewhere and go somewhere no?

Closed loop will not change the sump level unless u turn the pump off

SteveSTL · Dec 6, 2016

cbear44 said:
Anyone with experience with educators? Is this really like a laser beam of flow or is it wide? I'm considering adding to my sea swirls

Eductors "sort of" multiply the flow out of the nozzle. The water comes out of the pipe goes through the eductor and pulls more water with it. It isn't a laser jet but neither is it as broad as a propeller.

justingraham · Dec 6, 2016

Yea I have enductors as well get a good range of flow I use the penguin ones not the cheesy ones with fans or whatever in it. I also have talked to sea swirl and they do not recommend using enductors on sea swirls but people have done it @locito277 has he also has enductors on an l1 which I still don't believe him that he's getting the most flow out of it but hats why I'm going to come visit right?

justingraham · Dec 6, 2016

Sea swirls and enductors that's what I know so if u have questions ask away

saltyfilmfolks · Dec 6, 2016

Yo

Brew12 said:
Just want to throw out a pro/con of closed loops vice powerheads base on my tank (6ft long) with an MP40 on each end.
The advantage of powerheads is that the impellers, by their nature, create more turbulent flow on their output. You can replicate this to a small extent with a closed loop but that is it.
I typically run my MP40's at 25oo gph. They really only have an effective reach 24" into the tank. By 36" the flow is fairly minor. Not a concern for me since the center of my tank is empty space. I count that as 5000gph of total flow in my system.
Lets say I'm running a closed loop with the suction and discharge on opposite ends. If I have 2500 gph on one end then I have to have 2500 gph on the opposite end. In effect, I have just as much total system flow (if not more) than the 5000 gph from my 2 MP40's.

You should look at some old school tanks.
Point three hoses in a tank at each other it creates turbulence.
Point three six or nine all over the tank an BOOM. That's why you do closeed loop.
Put a spray bar on the top or bottom back and it creates a barrel roll of massive proportion. Like the length of the tank.
With one pump and valves to adjust intensity of each line you create a dozen sources all smashing against each other creating turbulence.
Kinda beats a couple vortec and a gyre IMO.
Anybody can have a vortec.

saltyfilmfolks · Dec 6, 2016

justingraham said:
Closed loop will not change the sump level unless u turn the pump off

Correct. They were talking about two surging from the same sump at different rates.
So the return rate would spike wouldn't it.

Drakonis · Dec 6, 2016

saltyfilmfolks said:
Correct. They were talking about two surging from the same sump at different rates.
So the return rate would spike wouldn't it.

Wouldnt change tank level as it doesnt matter how you move water it doesnt compress. only way you change level is of you do like a borneman surge or the like

saltyfilmfolks · Dec 6, 2016

Not the tank level. The sump.
Two pumps. One sump

Drakonis said:
Wouldnt change tank level as it doesnt matter how you move water it doesnt compress. only way you change level is of you do like a borneman surge or the like

Drakonis · Dec 6, 2016

Think of the water in the CL is part of tank capacity, doesnt matter how it moves its still "in the tank"

Reefermadness73 · Dec 6, 2016

What about leaks? More holes= more chances for leaks. They look nice but not sure if I'd be comfortable with one

saltyfilmfolks · Dec 7, 2016

Brew12 said:
pushing the impeller with water will create some turbulence but it can't replicate the chaotic pressure surges of the impeller pushing the water.

Drakonis said:
Even if there was static resistance on the propeller so it didnt free wheel?

the turbulence is from the multi sources of water. like a hot tub.(minus bubbles)
ever done a tank with only jets and not heads?

look at a flow chart of a big CL tank.