To mud or not to mud that is the question...

ZJedi945 · Jul 9, 2016

As the title cleverly says... should I use a miracle mud base sump? I am getting ready to start to set everything up with in a week. I have seen a lot of differing opinions on mud. My LFS say it really isn't worth it, others live and breathe by the stuff.

So what do you all think?

Diesel · Jul 9, 2016

Following.

Feet4Fish · Jul 10, 2016

From my personal experience I whole heartedly endorse miracle mud. When setting up my current system I decided to give it a shot as Mike Paletta was such an avid endorser. I have it is my fuge with caluerpa and chaeto on a 24 hour daylight cycle. My system runs low nitrates ( 10 ppm or less) and is stocked with messy eaters: trigger, tangs, Angels, tusk, foxface , etc.

ja4207 · Jul 10, 2016

This stuff is flat hocus pocus. Its a Miracle that people are still buying into this stuff.

Here's a link of an elemental analysis into the composition claims of Ecosystems Mircle Mudhttp://www.reefs.org/library/testing/miraclemud.

Conclusion for those that don't want to read the the findings

The last sentence represents what a true fraud this product is.

Quote:
"The analysis indicates that Miracle Mud is 30% silicon. This mostly likely exists in Miracle Mud as silicon dioxide, which is most commonly found in nature as quartz. As pointed out by chemist Randy Holmes-Farley, the molecular weight of silicon makes up less than half the molecular weight of silicon dioxide. So if the silicon present is all in the form of silicon dioxide, then Miracle Mud is more than 63% quartz sand. This seems to be confirmed by the photos.

The high levels of metals (especially Aluminum, Iron and Titanium) are also a point of concern.

In addition, no traces of any marine sediment were found in any microscopic examination - no oolitic sand grains, no shell fragments, no diatoms or any other remnants of marine life. An acid test conducted by Shane Graber indicates that no carbonates are present in Miracle Mud. It is difficult to reconcile these facts with the manufacturer's claim that "Miracle Mud is 80% oceanic mud."

Bpb · Jul 10, 2016

I've been a mud user for a few years now. I use Fiji mud though not miracle mud. Fiji mud comes wet already. Basically feels like clay mud. Hard to say if the corals are happier from it but it does really well at harboring inverts and pods in the fuge. One thing to note is that most of the mud opponents haven't ever tried it and just quickly cite that same elemental analysis link for years now. The people that recommend it gave experience with it and prefer to have it.

ZJedi945 · Jul 10, 2016

It is hard to not listen to all of the people that endorse it, like Paletta, @soffutt and many others. But then there are things like this make me wonder like @ja4207 posted, if it is worth it in the end. Like a little grain of doubt in the back of your head.

Feet4Fish · Jul 10, 2016

ZJedi945 said:
It is hard to not listen to all of the people that endorse it, like Paletta, @soffutt and many others. But then there are things like this make me wonder like @ja4207 posted twins , if it is worth it in the end. Like a little grain of doubt in the back of your heady that .

I completely understand where you are coming from. There are few things in this hobby that won't have both its supporters and detractors. It comes down to want your gut feeling is. Try way I viewed it is that miracle mid was endorsed by some major leaders is the hobby and it was benign enough that I gave it a shot. I am glad I did. It is part of my total filtration system which I love. I heavily feed my tanks three times daily cannot get my nitrates above 10 ppm.

ZJedi945 · Jul 10, 2016

soffutt said:
I completely understand where you are coming from. There are few things in this hobby that won't have both its supporters and detractors. It comes down to want your gut feeling is. Try way I viewed it is that miracle mid was endorsed by some major leaders is the hobby and it was benign enough that I gave it a shot. I am glad I did. It is part of my total filtration system which I love. I heavily feed my tanks three times daily cannot get my nitrates above 10 ppm.

My gut says do it. Like you said a lot of big leaders use it. So unless they are getting paid.... ha! I am just curious to see what the major consensus is before I pull the trigger. Though NO ONE IS VOTING!

chefjpaul · Jul 10, 2016

To pretty of a sump to get dirty.
Kidding...

twilliard · Jul 10, 2016

I vote sand substrate but it's not an option

chefjpaul · Jul 10, 2016

twilliard said:
I vote sand substrate but it's not an option

If we are going off course, then fill it with marine pure blocks.

Feet4Fish · Jul 10, 2016

chefjpaul said:
If we are going off course, then fill it with marine pure blocks.

Marine pure is awesome. I use both. It is a 55 gallon sump so room is not an issue.

ZJedi945 · Jul 10, 2016

I might use that if I have to raise my skimmer at all. hehe mucho filtration.

ja4207 · Jul 10, 2016

Bpb said:
I've been a mud user for a few years now. I use Fiji mud though not miracle mud. Fiji mud comes wet already. Basically feels like clay mud. Hard to say if the corals are happier from it but it does really well at harboring inverts and pods in the fuge. One thing to note is that most of the mud opponents haven't ever tried it and just quickly cite that same elemental analysis link for years now. The people that recommend it gave experience with it and prefer to have it.

Considering that the bold claims of so called Mircle Mud of "80% oceanic mud, harvested from deep ocean water and then dried on land." Of which visually, chemically and elementally no such evidence exists.... Matter of fact, the claim is almost outlandish.

Then of course, the old Miracle Mud requires no protein skimmer as it's the most comprehensive filtration system on the market.

And then, Miracle Mud reverses Hole-in-the-Head disease!

Ultimately your right, I've never tried it. Considering the claims alone, then add the mass spectrometer readings with kicker at the end of elevated Aluminum, Iron and Titanium..... No thank you. Science is science and that stuff is snake oil.

ZJedi945 · Jul 11, 2016

This truly is one topic with two diehard camps... MAN. The thing that gets me is that this product has been around for more than 20 years. If something is around that long in the hobby and has the following of big names that it does I would think it have some clout. I am curious to hear from some more users.

bubbaque · Jul 11, 2016

Buy it and put it in your sump, inside little trays. If you don't like it, it can be easily removed.

ja4207 · Jul 11, 2016

bubbaque said:
Buy it and put it in your sump, inside little trays. If you don't like it, it can be easily removed.

Agreed, for all my negative feelings towards the product I will admit I've never heard of anything bad happening per see... Except of course a waste of cash hehe.

Put it in and see for yourself.

ZJedi945 · Jul 11, 2016

bubbaque said:
Buy it and put it in your sump, inside little trays. If you don't like it, it can be easily removed.

Hmmm I like it. Might have to do that just to check it out.

Russ265 · Jul 11, 2016

Used it in my 220. Got my tank all cloudy. Pulled it after 6 months. Did nothing and I spent $300 on the bags for this test.

If you want to try a cheaper method, get some home depot play sand made of quartz, go out in to a forest and scrape up some dirt, churn it in the sand and place in sump. voila! same thing.

ZJedi945 · Jul 11, 2016

Russ265 said:
Used it in my 220. Got my tank all cloudy. Pulled it after 6 months. Did nothing and I spent $300 on the bags for this test.

If you want to try a cheaper method, get some home depot play sand made of quartz, go out in to a forest and scrape up some dirt, churn it in the sand and place in sump. voila! same thing.

This is the kind of feedback I was looking for! Sadly enough....