Treatment options for cyano?

[CourtNjoeZreef]

I did 1.5ml per gallon. I see some results already in about 30 min. ill make a choice in the morning on wheter or not to do another dose.

 

[vetteguy53081]

@Dan_P @taricha @ScottB

What causes cyano in aquariums? How do we remedy it?

Does cyano go away on its own, or is chemi clean the only solution for it?

I personally dealt with cyano in a tank that didn’t seem to go away until I dosed chemi clean. I feel reluctant to recommend anyone to dose this chemical, even though it worked for me.

I know Paul B has cyano is his 50+ year old tank.

What causes it? How do we treat it?

It is actually a combo of algae and bacteria giving it - its name. Cyano is a common photosynthetic organismfound in an array of colors such as green, purple and black. Like us human when we consume high levels of sugar, oyur waste begins to bloom - same happens in your tank when concentrations of phosphate, nitrate and other organic compounds are too high.
So as for cause, some typical items are :

- Not Enough Air Bubbles: Typically, a protein skimmer fills water with tiny air bubbles. As bubbles form from the reaction chamber, dissolved organic compound molecules stick to them. Foam forms at the surface of the water and is then transferred to a collection cup, where it rests as skimmate
- Too Much Reef Food: Overstocking / overfeeding your aquarium with nutrients is often the culprit of a cyano bloom
- Premature Live Rocks :Adding live rock that isn’t completely cured which becomes a breeding ground for red slime algae
- Infrequent Water Changes: If you don’t change your water with enough frequency, you’ll soon have a brightly colored red slime algae bloom. Regular water changes will dilute nutrients that feed cyanobacteria and keeps your tank clear
- Poor water Source: Using water source which contains nitrates or phosphates is like rolling out a welcome mat for cyano
- Slow running water will run Red: Inadequate water flow is one leading cause of cyano blooms as slow moving water combined with excess dissolved nutrients is a recipe for red slime algae development

I recommend to reduce white light intensity or even turn them off for 5-7 days. Add liquid bacteria daily for a week during the day at 1.5ml per 10 gallons. Add Hydrogen peroxide at night at 1ml per 10 gallons. Add a pouch of chemipure Elite which will balance phos and nitrate and keep them in check.

After the week, add a few snails such as cerith, margarita, astrea and nassarius plus 6-8 blue leg hermits to take control.

 

[Simon Reefing]

Keep in mind, when you use hydrogen peroxide, you kill some good and bad bacteria, your corals will not enjoy that much and may shrink.
Kill the Cyano….but at what cost?
Did not affect fish or inverts.

This is true hopefully the tank clears up tomorrow if not I will preform a water change just to help it out. The tank is very cloudy and everything is still closed but everything looks fine. Might throw in some carbon tomorrow if it’s still cloudy

 

[ians pico]

Following

 

[ians pico]

I’m interested to see the outcome. If it were me I would treat this like a dip and do a water change now. Whenever I dip my corals that have grown algae I do a strong solution like you did (on a much smaller scale obviously) but then when I put the corals back they still have a bit of algae on them and the plug and they’re irritated but by. The next day the coral recovers as the algae continues to die off. I would assume that would be the same case on a larger scale like this.

 

[Sean Clark]

This is true hopefully the tank clears up tomorrow if not I will preform a water change just to help it out. The tank is very cloudy and everything is still closed but everything looks fine. Might throw in some carbon tomorrow if it’s still cloudy

It will clear up with socks. No worries. Also the H2O2 brakes down completely. Performing a water change is not necessary like when using using chemiclean. You can do one if you like, but it is not nessacary.

 

[taricha]

Somewhat relative to the OP thread but have you guys noticed that almost all mature tanks seem to have some form of cyano living in their sandbeds? Not on top but below and visible through the glass. I turkey baste my sand every water change and it still lives in there with its reddish hue.

This the only place I get cyano on both my tanks! I Was wondering the same thing. I just stir the stand next to glass before each water change but it comes back by the following week.

This is the only place I have cyano currently as well.
There are processes in a sandbed involving the breakdown of food and other organics that lower pH and create low O2 / reducing conditions.
Both low pH and reducing conditions can liberate nutrients from sediments. PO4 bound to aragonite is released by lower pH that dissolves the outside surface of aragonite sand, reducing conditions can cause the release of Fe-Phosphate compounds. All these goodies can help drive cyano.

It will clear up with socks. No worries. Also the H2O2 brakes down completely. Performing a water change is not necessary like when using using chemiclean. You can do one if you like, but it is not nessacary.

There are peroxide test strips. Anyone ever track how a massive dose like that degrades in a tank? barring that, what's the time until the more sensitive corals re-open.

 

[CourtNjoeZreef]

UPDATE* so I did 1.5ml / gallon which equated to approximately 135ml. The zoa's felt it immediately some of the others closed a little bit but after about 2 hours they were tentacles out feeding.

This morning the skimmer looks like red rust in the cup which I'm assuming is all my cyano. There was a little bit left in the tank so I added another 100ml.

I'm going to expand my Cuc as suggested by @vetteguy53081

Something I noticed is my pH rose at a fairly steep pace after dosing the peroxide last night. It fell back to normal but something to be aware of.

I'll keep you posted on my progress for sure.

 

[Miami Reef]

Excellent. When I used chemiclean for my cyano it took about 2 days to get my full results.

Seeing the pink tint is a VERY good sign.

Increase surface agitation and run carbon as soon as possible. This will remove excess organics and any possible toxins.

 

[vetteguy53081]

UPDATE* so I did 1.5ml / gallon which equated to approximately 135ml. The zoa's felt it immediately some of the others closed a little bit but after about 2 hours they were tentacles out feeding.

This morning the skimmer looks like red rust in the cup which I'm assuming is all my cyano. There was a little bit left in the tank so I added another 100ml.

I'm going to expand my Cuc as suggested by @vetteguy53081

Something I noticed is my pH rose at a fairly steep pace after dosing the peroxide last night. It fell back to normal but something to be aware of.

I'll keep you posted on my progress for sure.

I should mention- add peroxide to the sump to allow return pump to distribute it - not directly to tank

 

[Subsea]

ALL??? I wouldn't make that statement. This is a well researched topic and I would direct anyone looking for specific animal compatibility look that animal up. Anecdotally, I have not had any issues with any fish, corals, or inverts including pods over a 48 hour dosing (2 doses) at 2.5ml/gallon.

I will quibble with you on a dose rate of 2.5ml/G. That’s an exceptionally high dose rate. I dosed my system with one ml/G. By day 3, amphipods were gone. It depends on the BOD (biological oxygen demand) of your system. I regularly dip corals in a 10% solution of 3% hydrogen peroxide for 10 minutes.

PS: Dose peroxide when lights out as light degrades peroxide.

 

[Subsea]

“Both low pH and reducing conditions can liberate nutrients from sediments. PO4 bound to aragonite is released by lower pH that dissolves the outside surface of aragonite sand, reducing conditions can cause the release of Fe-Phosphate compounds. All these goodies can help drive cyano.”

Not only can Cynobacteria remove phosphate from sequestered calcium phosphate in substrate but Cynobacteria converts dissolved nitrogen gas into ammonia. The worst thing to do for Cynobacteria control is reduce nutrients because you inhibit competition.

 

[Sean Clark]

There are peroxide test strips. Anyone ever track how a massive dose like that degrades in a tank? barring that, what's the time until the more sensitive corals re-open.

This would be an interesting thing to test and track for sure. The larger the data set the better it would help the community. As for corals opening back up, my experience has been that of the corals that visually react softies seem to close up first and open back up last, lps seam to react slower and open up sooner, sps seams either less sensitive or display less of a visual reaction. Corals open back up within hours but they are all different.

Something I noticed is my pH rose at a fairly steep pace after dosing the peroxide last night. It fell back to normal but something to be aware of.

This is interesting I looked through my logs and found the opposite correlation. ORP (orange) drops immediately and then rises back over about 12 hours, the pH (blue) drops slowly after the dose and is suppressed by approximately 0.1 before recovering. Here is the graph I screenshot from Fusion.

I should mention- add peroxide to the sump to allow return pump to distribute it - not directly to tank

Excellent.

I will quibble with you on a dose rate of 2.5ml/G. That’s an exceptionally high dose rate. I dosed my system with one ml/G. By day 3, amphipods were gone. It depends on the BOD (biological oxygen demand) of your system. I regularly dip corals in a 10% solution of 3% hydrogen peroxide.

I accept your quibble, all valid concerns. Thank you. There are a lot of factors that go into this and all our tanks are different. This is one of the reasons that I believe that hitting it hard and fast is a better solution than lower and slower. A scientific tests on this as suggested above would be fantastic.

 

[Subsea]

This would be an interesting thing to test and track for sure. The larger the data set the better it would help the community. As for corals opening back up, my experience has been that of the corals that visually react softies seem to close up first and open back up last, lps seam to react slower and open up sooner, sps seams either less sensitive or display less of a visual reaction. Corals open back up within hours but they are all different.

This is interesting I looked through my logs and found the opposite correlation. ORP (orange) drops immediately and then rises back over about 12 hours, the pH (blue) drops slowly after the dose and is suppressed by approximately 0.1 before recovering. Here is the graph I screenshot from Fusion.

Excellent.

I accept your quibble, all valid concerns. Thank you. There are a lot of factors that go into this and all our tanks are different. This is one of the reasons that I believe that hitting it hard and fast is a better solution than lower and slower. A scientific tests on this as suggested above would be fantastic.

How mature is your tank and what other inverts do you have in it? Anemone, clams, scallops, sea apples are preferred by me over corals.

 

[pecan2phat]

Sean,
With your 2.5ml/g regimen, do you recommend removing any media like carbon or GFO?
Do you leave the skimmer on or off for the treatment period?
Will it affect macro algae like Chaeto?
TIA

 

[Sean Clark]

How mature is your tank and what other inverts do you have in it? Anemone, clams, scallops, sea apples are preferred by me over corals.

I have two tanks right now, one is going on seven years and the other is not quite one year old. For inverts I have various hermits, banded trochus snails, skunk and fire shrimp, and a crocea clam. Well, I guess pods, bristle and hair worms count to right?

Sea apples are pretty sensitive from what I understand. I have never kept one.

 

[Subsea]

Macro algae will be decimated at that dosage. I grew ornamental seaweeds commercially, both indoors and outdoors in a greenhouse. I sold to LFS: I grew 55G monocultures of Bortacladia, Halymenia and Gracilaria Parvispor. When GHA contaminated Bortacladia monoculture, because as a high end money crop it merited special attention. I set up a 55G test tank in my dining room as a vertical loop tumble culture. I removed a small portion from aquaculture tank and placed in test tank. My first test was to dip infected macro in 10% solution of 3% hydrogen peroxide for 30 seconds and put in test tank, hoping to kill gha on surface of desirable macro algae. Both died. Even at 5 second dip both died. So then I skipped the dip and added 50 ml to 55G tank, both died within a few days.

Sean,
With your 2.5ml/g regimen, do you recommend removing any media like carbon or GFO?
Do you leave the skimmer on or off for the treatment period?
Will it affect macro algae like Chaeto?
TIA

 

[Sean Clark]

Sean,
With your 2.5ml/g regimen, do you recommend removing any media like carbon or GFO?
Do you leave the skimmer on or off for the treatment period?
Will it affect macro algae like Chaeto?
TIA

I don't run GFO, but I would not remove any media except maybe resins like Purigen. GFO, Carbon will not be an issue. The skimmer stays on the entire time. UV if you have it I would ensure was on as the Cyano will be in the water column and the UV will be an nice 1-2 punch. I have not seen any issue on Chaeto or mangroves.

 

[Subsea]

@Dan_P @taricha @ScottB

What causes cyano in aquariums? How do we remedy it?

Does cyano go away on its own, or is chemi clean the only solution for it?

I personally dealt with cyano in a tank that didn’t seem to go away until I dosed chemi clean. I feel reluctant to recommend anyone to dose this chemical, even though it worked for me.

I know Paul B has cyano is his 50+ year old tank.

What causes it? How do we treat it?

@Paul B also has GHA in his tank and breeding fish.

My mixed garden at 25 yrs mature has both Cynobacteria & GHA in spots. It’s natural and not a big deal.

Forrest Rohwer’s book, Corals in a Microbial Sea illustrates how bacteria run the show in our ecosystem. Even before the corals show symptoms, the microbial profile will predict coral decline. It should be noted that his podcast on this subject also discussed Cynobacteria in coral biomass supplying coral with nitrogen thru biochemical process called nitrogen fixation. Cynobacteria converted earths early atmosphere from sulfur & methane to oxygen.

Note the Cynobacteria on glass just below the top of substrate.

 

[Sean Clark]

@Paul B also has GHA in his tank and breeding fish.

My mixed garden at 25 yrs mature has both Cynobacteria & GHA in spots. It’s natural and not a big deal.

Forrest Rohwer’s book, Corals in a Microbial Sea illustrates how bacteria run the show in our ecosystem. Even before the corals show symptoms, the microbial profile will predict coral decline. It should be noted that his podcast on this subject also discussed Cynobacteria in coral biomass supplying coral with nitrogen thru biochemical process called nitrogen fixation. Cynobacteria converted earths early atmosphere from sulfur & methane to oxygen.

Note the Cynobacteria on glass just below the top of substrate.

Beautiful!