Trident vs Alkatronic vs KH Director vs kh guardian

[Kyl]

Sorry for the dumb question. Which equipment is this?
Not having controll over the test time seem not fair and bad for me..

Trident at default testing intervals.

 

[road_runner]

Trident at default testing intervals.

Thanks. Not sure I get the wisdom behind that but I do not like it.
I get you want to test at the same time argument but I do not get why I am not able to decide what time to test..what if I want to test during specific hours where I have a dosing event..etc
Anyway thanks for clarifying.

 

[ReeferBud]

I plan on this week writing down each machine with pros/cons and make a decision. Hopefully this helps others with future decisions.

Please share what you come up with!

Based on this thread I’ve pretty much narrowed it down to the Alkatronic for me.

Seems like others here have had good experiences and there’s some positive reviews online and on YouTube.

What made it the choice for me was:
- reliability and good reviews from actual users
- ability to show Alk results in Apex Fusion and possibility to control based on it
- cost effective maintenance and reagents
- seems like the company is responsive, although I haven’t dealt with them yet

 

[mitch91175]

Please share what you come up with!

Based on this thread I’ve pretty much narrowed it down to the Alkatronic for me.

Seems like others here have had good experiences and there’s some positive reviews online and on YouTube.

What made it the choice for me was:
- reliability and good reviews from actual users
- ability to show Alk results in Apex Fusion and possibility to control based on it
- cost effective maintenance and reagents
- seems like the company is responsive, although I haven’t dealt with them yet

@ReeferBud you can send a message to them on their Facebook page to see how you feel about them being responsive or not too. Also, I can send the measurements to the Apex, but I have had the need for the data in their so I used my pH port for something else. The unit does such a phenomenal job of managing my CaRx for me that I do not even worry about having the info in Fusion anymore.

The unit has definitely been reliable since I have started using it since March of 2018.

 

[ReeferBud]

@ReeferBud you can send a message to them on their Facebook page to see how you feel about them being responsive or not too. Also, I can send the measurements to the Apex, but I have had the need for the data in their so I used my pH port for something else. The unit does such a phenomenal job of managing my CaRx for me that I do not even worry about having the info in Fusion anymore.

The unit has definitely been reliable since I have started using it since March of 2018.

Thanks @mitch91175. I’ll definitely check that out!

Another unit comparison question: there’s been some chatter about the length requirement of the water sample tube. I know Trident has a fixed length that can’t be changed but what about Alkatronic? Is there a certain length you need to use or is it flexible?

The reason I ask is because I would preferably mount the unit on a table where I have the CaRx but that would require me to run about 10-15ft of line to the sump. Not sure if this is possible or whether it would create problems in testing the “current” Alk in the tank vs what is left in the line.

 

[road_runner]

Thanks @mitch91175. I’ll definitely check that out!

Another unit comparison question: there’s been some chatter about the length requirement of the water sample tube. I know Trident has a fixed length that can’t be changed but what about Alkatronic? Is there a certain length you need to use or is it flexible?

The reason I ask is because I would preferably mount the unit on a table where I have the CaRx but that would require me to run about 10-15ft of line to the sump. Not sure if this is possible or whether it would create problems in testing the “current” Alk in the tank vs what is left in the line.

Kh guardian do not have such restriction.

 

[mitch91175]

Thanks @mitch91175. I’ll definitely check that out!

Another unit comparison question: there’s been some chatter about the length requirement of the water sample tube. I know Trident has a fixed length that can’t be changed but what about Alkatronic? Is there a certain length you need to use or is it flexible?

The reason I ask is because I would preferably mount the unit on a table where I have the CaRx but that would require me to run about 10-15ft of line to the sump. Not sure if this is possible or whether it would create problems in testing the “current” Alk in the tank vs what is left in the line.

There is at some point a limitation with how much water can be flushed out of the lines and fresh tank water bought back in which affects the tube length. I personally wouldn't want to run a line that long no matter the unit. If the KH Guardian will allow you to run a 10-15ft line then I'd say go with that, but I wouldn't want to run a line that long with the Alkatronic. The reason is I think that it will not be able to flush the line, but then again, I never needed to run a line that long so I could be mistaken. That wasn't one of the requirements I needed was a long run.

 

[Silver14SS]

The Focustronic site has very detailed documentation. It recommends keeping the test line "as short as possible,and ideally not longer than 1.5 meter."
http://www.focustronic.net/media/wysiwyg/Alkatronic_User_Manual_5.5.pdf
http://www.focustronic.net/manuals

 

[hart24601]

An update on me and the alkatronic. I am still happy with it but two things happened recently that made me appreciate it again. 1st I made the reagent a bit heavy handed. It's nice can test with salifert and put in a correction value if you do something a bit off like I did on this batch so I can keep using it. Of course trident with premade reagent this isn't an issue, but nice to have here.

2nd I don't use apex or any controller, just dosing pumps. I noticed alk dropping - this is normal now that it's nice enough to open the windows, I see a drop on those days (aka more consumption due to less household CO2 even with a skimmer running outside air). However this was more than normal. I examined everything closely and saw one of the dosing pumps had a crack in the fitting allowing air in the line so the dose was a bit low accounting for the downward trend of a couple days.

This is the 3rd time or so an alk monitor if not prevented a crash it at least prevented stress on the system depending how long it would have taken me to notice. Each system seems solid, and boy are they nice to have.

 

[kodo28]

Good point with the salinity, especially for those of us with smaller tanks. When I looked at the KH Director, the frequency of how often I'd like to test and the waste volume meant I would have had to compensate for that.

I am curious to know what are the reagent made of to be able to return the tested water to the tank.
I asked GHL about this point and I've got following answer from them :
"If other companies have a good feeling to drain water with some acid into the main tank - fine, it's their business. Although the acid is very deluded (much lower than 1%) and will be deluded even more when the sample is pumped back into the tank we don't recommend it. So I am sorry but you will not see such an "improvement" - which is actually only a different way how to handle a potential issue with acid. Don't believe their reagent is "better" than ours, this is also acid - they are just less worried about impacts of thinned acid in a tank"...

 

[road_runner]

I am curious to know what are the reagent made of to be able to return the tested water to the tank.
I asked GHL about this point and I've got following answer from them :
"If other companies have a good feeling to drain water with some acid into the main tank - fine, it's their business. Although the acid is very deluded (much lower than 1%) and will be deluded even more when the sample is pumped back into the tank we don't recommend it. So I am sorry but you will not see such an "improvement" - which is actually only a different way how to handle a potential issue with acid. Don't believe their reagent is "better" than ours, this is also acid - they are just less worried about impacts of thinned acid in a tank"...

In the case of kh guardian the reagent is simply an RODI with specific acidity.
I return the tested water back to my sump without an issue I even did an ICP tests on a water sample and nothing unusual came in the results.

 

[Silver14SS]

I return my Alkatronic tests to the sump, and several months of this do not show anything irregular on my ICP tests. From their user manual:

 

[ReeferBud]

If one already has an Apex (this is my case), what Alk controlling benefits does the Trident provide vs. other controllers that can send Alk results to the Apex (i.e. Alkatronic)?

I would ultimately like to use the unit I buy to control Alk and I’ve read that the Alkatronic can do this as a SA unit. Since I already have everything controlled through my Apex, I would ideally want to still have all the programming logic and control through the Apex (with the DOS). Not sure if the Trident offers some type of better integration feature since it’s part of the same system vs just achieve if the same result with an Apex/Alkatronic combo.

Would be interested in hearing from both Alkatronic and Trident users.

 

[road_runner]

Do not see it happening but I agree it would be nice.
I also think controllers are becoming less useful as equipment manufacturers spend more time adding more function to the controllers that comes with the piece of equipment. The equipment controllers add way more function than just the basic functions of controllers. These manufacturers are adding cloud support also.
Controllers do add the convenience of all the data in one spot though and not have 3 + apps/..

I think Neptune started to cross the line when they started making equipment to compete with the same manufacturers they need to support their controller.
It is different when you a filling a gap where some equipment is not available like with the flow meters or feeders. There was no manufacturers making them for the Apex.

I think some companies are struggling with innovator's dilemma(its a great book btw)... they do not want to creat a new business or add a feature support that can self cannibalize an existing buissness. In this case enabling generalized APIs to their platform without associating sales (modules, probs,..etc) might mean less sales of some of their products.

the problem with that, beside not being driven by customers need, is, eventually someone else will do it and give the option and quality to the customer.

Take the KH guardian as an example. 3 years ago, they built a great kh tester. Then they make it connect to any controller via the PH prob connection which is somewhat standard and gave support to customers to connect their controllers to kh guardian. This gave khg faster time to market and the customers benifits by having options.

I see similar trends in GHL, every product they launch, they give the option for the product to be stand alone.. that aplso provided customers with more flexibility and bit of future proof.

You see the same trend in most big name products from lights to pumps to power heads...etc Thay now give stand alone support, controller support and leave it to customers to choose what to use.

Aquarium industry is still relatively small, so the progress is slow. But I think eventually things will be standardized and I doubt one vendor will be able to push most customers or other vendors through their platform only.

As for testing, there is enough indication that ion based probs are the future of testing...its still yet to be seen where this is going but look like we should know in the coming months..

Its not about sale volumes, it's not about muscling and fighting with competitor or customers, it's not about being early innovator... it's about customers satisfaction and their perception...Customers will always be the final judge and driving force.


Will be fun to watch how this industry will morph..

 

[leepink23]

If one already has an Apex (this is my case), what Alk controlling benefits does the Trident provide vs. other controllers that can send Alk results to the Apex (i.e. Alkatronic)?

I would ultimately like to use the unit I buy to control Alk and I’ve read that the Alkatronic can do this as a SA unit. Since I already have everything controlled through my Apex, I would ideally want to still have all the programming logic and control through the Apex (with the DOS). Not sure if the Trident offers some type of better integration feature since it’s part of the same system vs just achieve if the same result with an Apex/Alkatronic combo.

Would be interested in hearing from both Alkatronic and Trident users.

If you are using the dos then the other devices will only offer on/off control if defined levels are to high, with trident and dos it will adjust dosing based on reading. Alkatronic and Kh guardian can adjust their alkalinity dosing with their extra dosing head. I don’t own either so maybe people will chime in with their experiences.

 

[road_runner]

If you are using the dos then the other devices will only offer on/off control if defined levels are to high, with trident and dos it will adjust dosing based on reading. Alkatronic and Kh guardian can adjust their alkalinity dosing with their extra dosing head. I don’t own either so maybe people will chime in with their experiences.

It is safe to say that all existing kh testers will have the ability to test and dose.
Kh guardian and kh director do this in the same unit
Alktronic do this by adding their doser.
Trident will dose if you add their dos..

 

[leepink23]

It is safe to say that all existing kh testers will have the ability to test and dose.
Kh guardian and kh director do this in the same unit
Alktronic do this by adding their doser.
Trident will dose if you add their dos..

Yes that’s what I am saying, but if a person wants control over their DOS they will get more from the trident, I think all of these units will easily manage dkh

 

[leepink23]

After much debate and creating a list of pros and cons and scoring each I came up with Trident and Alkatronic, discussed with the wife about possible noise and she is fine giving it a try, coupled with how easy of a resale the trident would be I am going to stick with my original thought of the the Trident. Truth be told the noise may not even be an issue. None of the units met all of my wants and I think each machine has benefits that will be just right for different needs. Chances of getting one are slim but I will just keep waiting unless I change my mind again .

 

[road_runner]

Let us know how it goes.
I just got a kh director. Will set it up and test against my KHG for fun.
Honestly the more I read about all products the more I respect KH guardian for decisions they have made 3 years ago with their products.

 

[leepink23]

Let us know how it goes.
I just got a kh director. Will set it up and test against my KHG for fun.
Honestly the more I read about all products the more I respect KH guardian for decisions they have made 3 years ago with their products.

Let us know how the two compare!