Trident vs Alkatronic vs KH Director vs kh guardian

[chefjpaul]

Just a random question that interests me, as I would like to know.

How many of these companies actually make their own products? Which ones outsource the manufacturing and rely of their vendors reliably?

 

[road_runner]

Just a random question that interests me, as I would like to know.

How many of these companies actually make their own products? Which ones outsource the manufacturing and rely of their vendors reliably?

That's good question.
On the khg side I believe the device is built completly by the company. I follow the inventor on FB and I know he developed the doser heads l, the titration doser, drop counter and the rest of the device. He participate in summits and conferences of robotics and chemical testing.
Come to think of it, I think kh testers are developed by the vendors.
Trident was based on a design that Jim did and Neptune baught the idea couppe of years ago. The internal dosers are unique to be off the shelve.
Khd also novel enough I think its fully developed in house.

 

[chefjpaul]

I think kh testers are developed by the vendors.

Development and manufacturing are different.
I/E: GHL develops and manufacturers their own products, not outsourcing the manufacturing side.

 

[road_runner]

Development and manufacturing are different.
I/E: GHL develops and manufacturers their own products, not outsourcing the manufacturing side.

Really?
So ghl own manufacturing facilities?

 

[chefjpaul]

Really?
So ghl own manufacturing facilities?

Most likely not everything, but definitely assemble etc.

Makes me want to look into all them a bit more.
I honestly think they are all going to be very satisfactory products with ongoing advances and development, so anyway for our hobby its exciting.

 

[road_runner]

Most likely not everything, but definitely assemble etc.

Makes me want to look into all them a bit more.
I honestly think they are all going to be very satisfactory products with ongoing advances and development, so anyway for our hobby its exciting.

Yes assembly probably all doing in house. Not because they want to control quality as some would claim or play the made in xyz country trick..... It's because none have enough volumes to build production line in a factory.
All these products and companies are still small volumes and small operations to justify building an automated production lines. That's all it is.

 

[Gaël]

Really?
So ghl own manufacturing facilities?

 

[Janci]

Dastaco is working on their own kh tester. They should release it pretty soon. Their tester will connect to the dastaco controller and regulate the co2...

Slowly going through the thread. There has been rumours about the Dastaco KH controller, but honestly I believe this will not be released very soon.
there has been no updates on it since several months and although they might have a working and stable concept, i suspect fabrication issues to slow down the whle process.
Hence, reading this comparison thread to find faster/better options.

 

[ReeferBud]

Slowly going through the thread. There has been rumours about the Dastaco KH controller, but honestly I believe this will not be released very soon.
there has been no updates on it since several months and although they might have a working and stable concept, i suspect fabrication issues to slow down the whle process.
Hence, reading this comparison thread to find faster/better options.

Cool! What are your thoughts so far based on what you’ve read?

 

[Janci]

Cool! What are your thoughts so far based on what you’ve read?

In the end, all available products have proven to be working properly but are subject to variations (calibration, pH probes, human error, temperature,...).
These are monitors for me, not KH controllers. The device must warn me of any deviations, but the final decision to adjust will always be mine.

My opinion might be biased as I am a GHL Profilux + (2x) doser user.
So my first choice would go out to the KH Director, simply because it would cost me half of the Alkatronic, which is in the second place.
I like the GHL products for their simplicity, design (hardware and looks), compatibility, ability for programming and their service desk and response time.
Trident is not an option, even if it would be a stand alone version. I am not interested in Ca and Mg testing... I also have a Dastaco CaRx reactor.

I waited this long for several reasons:
- the promise from AMS to come with a KH controller for the Dastaco reactor (I lost my faith in this)
- feedback from reefers after months of use (perfect thread with comparison). I was hoping something in this thread and the forum would make me doubt about the KH Director, but nothing has at the moment.
- I do not buy newly released machinery as all have flaws which I do not want to solve. Once those are taken care of, I enter the picture. LOL
- I am looking for a way (not solved yet) to be able to adjust the Dastaco calcium reactor via remote (wifi/web based). I still have hopes that AMS will grow up and say goodbye to its controller and makes an interface possible to GHL/APEX or any other commonly used aquarium controller.
- Testing alkalinity would be only once or twice a day eventually. It does not make sense to me to test 8 times a day as our reefs are such a small eco systems which are subject to too many factors. My vision of stability is to keep the alkalinity between +/- 0.2 dKH. Once you know the daily fluctuations, you set the dosing and start testing less frequently.

There will not be many people who will have 2 different KH monitors to have the perfect comparison.
Heck, before reading these forum posts, each one of us has his preferences/needs/reasons/visions which in many cases and purchases have a bigger impact than these comparisons. Even before reading the honest opinions here, many know what they will buy and just look for a confirmation before making the investment.
Only when someone has similar preferences/needs/reasons/visions, there might be a change of heart.

The same works for me:
- I have a pH probe on my GHL controller and know that this is a stable working probe.
- I calibrate my dosers frequently and find them pretty consistent.
- I only need the KHD as I have one doser available already.
- after making the count, the cost per test is lower than others
- Although I do not live there at the moment, I am European and even that makes me stick to "local" products. Just because I frequently travel back home and there are more similar users, spare parts, know-how. (I wish there were more Euro members on R2R)
- I could not find an important reason yet to go with another KH monitor.
...
- I like the white/black look with the GHL logo on top... (just kidding)

 

[ReeferBud]

Testing alkalinity would be only once or twice a day eventually. It does not make sense to me to test 8 times a day as our reefs are such a small eco systems which are subject to too many factors. My vision of stability is to keep the alkalinity between +/- 0.2 dKH. Once you know the daily fluctuations, you set the dosing and start testing less frequently.

I am not interested in Ca and Mg testing...

after making the count, the cost per test is lower than others

Great points overall and completely agree with these ones. The manufacturers need to listen to this feedback as it will be important purchasing decision factors on what unit to buy as next generations of Alk monitors become available and innovation continues.

Those who decide or are unable to adapt will fail and market fundamentals will do their thing.

 

[leepink23]

In the end, all available products have proven to be working properly but are subject to variations (calibration, pH probes, human error, temperature,...).
These are monitors for me, not KH controllers. The device must warn me of any deviations, but the final decision to adjust will always be mine.

My opinion might be biased as I am a GHL Profilux + (2x) doser user.
So my first choice would go out to the KH Director, simply because it would cost me half of the Alkatronic, which is in the second place.
I like the GHL products for their simplicity, design (hardware and looks), compatibility, ability for programming and their service desk and response time.
Trident is not an option, even if it would be a stand alone version. I am not interested in Ca and Mg testing... I also have a Dastaco CaRx reactor.

I waited this long for several reasons:
- the promise from AMS to come with a KH controller for the Dastaco reactor (I lost my faith in this)
- feedback from reefers after months of use (perfect thread with comparison). I was hoping something in this thread and the forum would make me doubt about the KH Director, but nothing has at the moment.
- I do not buy newly released machinery as all have flaws which I do not want to solve. Once those are taken care of, I enter the picture. LOL
- I am looking for a way (not solved yet) to be able to adjust the Dastaco calcium reactor via remote (wifi/web based). I still have hopes that AMS will grow up and say goodbye to its controller and makes an interface possible to GHL/APEX or any other commonly used aquarium controller.
- Testing alkalinity would be only once or twice a day eventually. It does not make sense to me to test 8 times a day as our reefs are such a small eco systems which are subject to too many factors. My vision of stability is to keep the alkalinity between +/- 0.2 dKH. Once you know the daily fluctuations, you set the dosing and start testing less frequently.

There will not be many people who will have 2 different KH monitors to have the perfect comparison.
Heck, before reading these forum posts, each one of us has his preferences/needs/reasons/visions which in many cases and purchases have a bigger impact than these comparisons. Even before reading the honest opinions here, many know what they will buy and just look for a confirmation before making the investment.
Only when someone has similar preferences/needs/reasons/visions, there might be a change of heart.

The same works for me:
- I have a pH probe on my GHL controller and know that this is a stable working probe.
- I calibrate my dosers frequently and find them pretty consistent.
- I only need the KHD as I have one doser available already.
- after making the count, the cost per test is lower than others
- Although I do not live there at the moment, I am European and even that makes me stick to "local" products. Just because I frequently travel back home and there are more similar users, spare parts, know-how. (I wish there were more Euro members on R2R)
- I could not find an important reason yet to go with another KH monitor.
...
- I like the white/black look with the GHL logo on top... (just kidding)

Very well said, if I owned ghl already, the Director would’ve been my choice as well.

 

[road_runner]

In the end, all available products have proven to be working properly but are subject to variations (calibration, pH probes, human error, temperature,...).
These are monitors for me, not KH controllers. The device must warn me of any deviations, but the final decision to adjust will always be mine.

My opinion might be biased as I am a GHL Profilux + (2x) doser user.
So my first choice would go out to the KH Director, simply because it would cost me half of the Alkatronic, which is in the second place.
I like the GHL products for their simplicity, design (hardware and looks), compatibility, ability for programming and their service desk and response time.
Trident is not an option, even if it would be a stand alone version. I am not interested in Ca and Mg testing... I also have a Dastaco CaRx reactor.

I waited this long for several reasons:
- the promise from AMS to come with a KH controller for the Dastaco reactor (I lost my faith in this)
- feedback from reefers after months of use (perfect thread with comparison). I was hoping something in this thread and the forum would make me doubt about the KH Director, but nothing has at the moment.
- I do not buy newly released machinery as all have flaws which I do not want to solve. Once those are taken care of, I enter the picture. LOL
- I am looking for a way (not solved yet) to be able to adjust the Dastaco calcium reactor via remote (wifi/web based). I still have hopes that AMS will grow up and say goodbye to its controller and makes an interface possible to GHL/APEX or any other commonly used aquarium controller.
- Testing alkalinity would be only once or twice a day eventually. It does not make sense to me to test 8 times a day as our reefs are such a small eco systems which are subject to too many factors. My vision of stability is to keep the alkalinity between +/- 0.2 dKH. Once you know the daily fluctuations, you set the dosing and start testing less frequently.

There will not be many people who will have 2 different KH monitors to have the perfect comparison.
Heck, before reading these forum posts, each one of us has his preferences/needs/reasons/visions which in many cases and purchases have a bigger impact than these comparisons. Even before reading the honest opinions here, many know what they will buy and just look for a confirmation before making the investment.
Only when someone has similar preferences/needs/reasons/visions, there might be a change of heart.

The same works for me:
- I have a pH probe on my GHL controller and know that this is a stable working probe.
- I calibrate my dosers frequently and find them pretty consistent.
- I only need the KHD as I have one doser available already.
- after making the count, the cost per test is lower than others
- Although I do not live there at the moment, I am European and even that makes me stick to "local" products. Just because I frequently travel back home and there are more similar users, spare parts, know-how. (I wish there were more Euro members on R2R)
- I could not find an important reason yet to go with another KH monitor.
...
- I like the white/black look with the GHL logo on top... (just kidding)

The day AMS depend on apex for the dastaco instead of their controller I will throw my dastaco in the garbage..100% serious..in my openion there is nothing more dangerous than doser or ca reactor that depends on Apex. Dosers and CA reactor can crash a system if not controlled correctly..

 

[Janci]

The day AMS depend on apex for the dastaco instead of their controller I will throw my dastaco in the garbage..100% serious..in my openion there is nothing more dangerous than doser or ca reactor that depends on Apex. Dosers and CA reactor can crash a system if not controlled correctly..

Agreed.
I love the Dastaco for its stability but they should make it more user friendly.
The product is completely outdated by now.
Time to move on to allow remote set up, either by their own module or via a third party one.
But this issue will need it's own thread.

 

[CDavmd]

Wow the Vitriol towards Apex is just stunning. I am not a fan-boy of apex and really of no products or companies. I've been reefing for a very long time and remember when a pinpoint pH meter, thermometer, refractometer, and some test kits were all the controller anyone needed. Times have moved on and technology has assimilated our hobby. It amazes me what we have available today and how this would have been science fiction back in the 90's when we were happy to keep a softy alive!

I never thought I needed or wanted a controller- but as life gets more complicated....family....career obligations....traveling....I decided to take the plunge. I am a Mac/iOS person going all the way back to the Apple II in the 80's. Sooo although GHL looked cool and intrigued me when I was in the market it didn't fit my preferences. I was hoping the Vertex would come through but that's another story!!

I went with Apex. I personally do not like the orange color and the Fisher Price look but that is simply cosmetic. I decided to incorporate the Apex into my new build and honestly I have not had any regrets. I know folks out there have problems. I for one have not had anything major. I had a DDR optical sensor crap out and Neptune promptly replaced it. I've had a leak detector go on the fritz and did not bother contacting Neptune about this. I have had a few issues with the DOS getting air in the tubing. I think its due to Neptunes tubing being so stiff. I found some food grade soft silicon tubing on amazon and that problem is history.

So again, I've had no major issues with my Apex on my new system or my ApexEL which has been running on my frag system. I have multiple DOS for AWC and dosing and again no issues other than what I mentioned. I have two WAV's and thus far no issues.

I picked up the Trident because I was already heavily invested in Apex. I was very close to pulling the trigger on an Alkatronic and honestly didn't simply because Neptune released the trident as I was a day or two from purchasing. I received my Trident on the second round from BRS- it was a breeze to setup, it has worked without issue or flaw. I purchased a second one for my Display tank, the first I put on my Frag system where I have many high end SPS. The second one has been working without issue and was just as easily setup. I compared with my Hanna checkers and Red Sea Tests as well as a recent ATI ICP test and everything is in agreement within the error ranges.

I decided to try the DOS control to manage my dosing of ATI Essentials Pro.....thus far perfect. I have set my system to control the dKH at 8.5 +/- .25 and it does.

Do I really want to check Ca and Mg several times a day....heck NO! As you can see they don't really change much- especially magnesium which is essentially a flat line. However, the insights into dKH fluctuations were interesting and helpful. I am happy with how the system is working and thought I would let others know on this thread who might want to hear something about the Trident.

The deflection point in the graph is the calibration event.

I apologize to those who clearly have visceral deep feelings of animosity toward apex....this is not personal for me and in the future if something greater and better comes along I may ditch the yuk orange plastic for the shiny new toy but for now this is working for me and I am satisfied.

I getting ready to pull the trigger on a calcium reactor- the Dastaco has been top on my list but after seeing the comments above I'll wait and see a little bit longer.....

Happy Reefing!

 

[road_runner]

Wow the Vitriol towards Apex is just stunning. I am not a fan-boy of apex and really of no products or companies. I've been reefing for a very long time and remember when a pinpoint pH meter, thermometer, refractometer, and some test kits were all the controller anyone needed. Times have moved on and technology has assimilated our hobby. It amazes me what we have available today and how this would have been science fiction back in the 90's when we were happy to keep a softy alive!

I never thought I needed or wanted a controller- but as life gets more complicated....family....career obligations....traveling....I decided to take the plunge. I am a Mac/iOS person going all the way back to the Apple II in the 80's. Sooo although GHL looked cool and intrigued me when I was in the market it didn't fit my preferences. I was hoping the Vertex would come through but that's another story!!

I went with Apex. I personally do not like the orange color and the Fisher Price look but that is simply cosmetic. I decided to incorporate the Apex into my new build and honestly I have not had any regrets. I know folks out there have problems. I for one have not had anything major. I had a DDR optical sensor crap out and Neptune promptly replaced it. I've had a leak detector go on the fritz and did not bother contacting Neptune about this. I have had a few issues with the DOS getting air in the tubing. I think its due to Neptunes tubing being so stiff. I found some food grade soft silicon tubing on amazon and that problem is history.

So again, I've had no major issues with my Apex on my new system or my ApexEL which has been running on my frag system. I have multiple DOS for AWC and dosing and again no issues other than what I mentioned. I have two WAV's and thus far no issues.

I picked up the Trident because I was already heavily invested in Apex. I was very close to pulling the trigger on an Alkatronic and honestly didn't simply because Neptune released the trident as I was a day or two from purchasing. I received my Trident on the second round from BRS- it was a breeze to setup, it has worked without issue or flaw. I purchased a second one for my Display tank, the first I put on my Frag system where I have many high end SPS. The second one has been working without issue and was just as easily setup. I compared with my Hanna checkers and Red Sea Tests as well as a recent ATI ICP test and everything is in agreement within the error ranges.

I decided to try the DOS control to manage my dosing of ATI Essentials Pro.....thus far perfect. I have set my system to control the dKH at 8.5 +/- .25 and it does.

Do I really want to check Ca and Mg several times a day....heck NO! As you can see they don't really change much- especially magnesium which is essentially a flat line. However, the insights into dKH fluctuations were interesting and helpful. I am happy with how the system is working and thought I would let others know on this thread who might want to hear something about the Trident.

I apologize to those who clearly have visceral deep feelings of animosity toward apex....this is not personal for me and in the future if something greater and better comes along I may ditch the yuk orange plastic for the shiny new toy but for now this is working for me and I am satisfied.

I getting ready to pull the trigger on a calcium reactor- the Dastaco has been top on my list but after seeing the comments above I'll wait and see a little bit longer.....

Happy Reefing!

Hands down dastaco is one of the best reactors out there with super easy setup. Just fyi.

 

[road_runner]

Btw I have dastaco and KHG. I would not want my khg to controll the dastaco. I have found that the best use case(at least for me) was to let dastaco donuts thing and use the khg to test and dose as supplemental..basically micro dosing....
Solid stability

 

[CDavmd]

Btw I have dastaco and KHG. I would not want my khg to controll the dastaco. I have found that the best use case(at least for me) was to let dastaco donuts thing and use the khg to test and dose as supplemental..basically micro dosing....
Solid stability

That would be my plan as well. Have the Dastaco supply 90% of the Alkalinity and let the Apex/DOS fine tune the last 10%

 

[road_runner]

That would be my plan as well. Have the Dastaco supply 90% of the Alkalinity and let the Apex/DOS fine tune the last 10%

Solid plan

 

[MnFish1]

The min you can set is to test every 240min. If I want to test less frequent I connect it to a timer or a controlled outlet where I turn it on and off ad I like to test.
But honestly I stopped doing that because, testing every 4 hours the reagent last for 2 months...so it's been good enough for me.

Curious - is that recommended/approved by the company - i.e. is there a reason (for the functioning of the unit that 240 minutes is the minimum?)